Should I give up playing monk/mw?

Classes Monk
1

I finished all 14s and it feels like reliving season 1 where it’s just applying to groups to see disc priest (and now rdruid) get taken.

Then I see mw is getting nerfed…again?

Will Floodgate 15 even be possible with the single target damage/healing nerf to JE? It already feels too close on swamp face and sometimes bubbles. It doesn’t seem like we were given anything back to compensate for this. There’s the cleave damage increased by 10% but that doesn’t help in a lot of these boss fights with non-stop aoe and dot damage, because they’re single target. If cleave was the the only thing that mattered I would probably just run Dance of Chi-ji again.

What’s going on with blizzard? Why do they keep doing this? can’t they just nerf MoH instead of nerfing mw altogether? I wish they would get rid of JE talent and make something better tbh and have long thought there’s just nowhere for them to go with spec design as long as this talent exists and is so dominant/useful. I was saying that in season one and season 2 it’s same story.

But I just been thinking playing LFG rather than playing the game as a less-than-s-tier heal spec is probably not worth the time, right? Sure I hate playing casters like disc and rdruid but I’m not even gonna be able to play the game as my preferred spec. I thought resilient keys would have remedied this, but no it is same story different season. The like 3-4 weeks of being meta was nice, instant invites to groups, and just geting to play the game.

I know i make a lot of complaining post of this nature but like if it doesn’t change and I can’t find passion in playing another class I’m probably just gonna stop playing this tier altogether. It was such an incredible waste of time last season to wait 3-4 hours in lfg to get into a key, brick first pull, then sit in lfg another 2-4 hours to get into another. Sure i can run my resil 14s but its PSF so that would be probably the same amount of time spent bricking that over and over until I get a group that times it. If it was DFC or rookery sure I wouldn’t mind. PSF is basically dead on arrival cause it’s always prog.

I kind of wish blizzard would replace the key system with a delve tier system so could just always do the key level you wanted to. I don’t personally feel like the keys themselves add a whole lot to the game and it’s only personal achievement after 3k mount there is no reward. What would be the harm in just choosing the difficulty setting we wanted?

Is this actually what blizzard wants? They want us to sit in lfg applying to groups for hours? What does that add to the game? Imagine if that was a selling point for a commercial: “explore new areas, wait in lfg for the amount of time it takes to prog a mythic raid boss, play exciting classes with brand new hero talents in a riveting idle simulator, and ponder the value of 15 dollars.”

idk just kinda bored and not filled with a lot of hope for mw in tww. I wish i had put in huge effort pre-nerf to push but the week i spent on alts cost progress and now soft locked out of 15s is just…not fun. I have a prot warrior i’ve been having fun on and a rdruid i might reluctantly play. Regret to contribute to the problem if I choose rdruid though. :\

6 Likes
2

Basically in the same boat. Spend hours in LFG, wonder why I’m paying money to not play the game.

4 Likes
3

I’m just going to pull this one metric out since it fits my narrative and I don’t want to do research, but every mistweaver on mythic gallywix is running conduit and they’re still doubling the next highest damage healer that is disc priest (which is also getting nerfed). 300k on gallywix is a 10% parse for mw and 100% for disc. Their damage is still overtuned and its not limited to master of harmony.

1 Like
4

That’s because healers aren’t dpsing in raids. They aren’t expected to. 2x nothing is still nothing. And the OP is talking about M+, not raiding.

Completely untrue. 450k is hardly ‘over tuned’.

https ://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/42?boss=3016&class=Healers

Power infusion (2 min CD) alone is equivalent to 450k additional dps. So a disc priest can not cast a damaging spell, and just hit PI on CD on a dps, and contribute just as much dps. MOTW will bring over 1M additional dps. Lust is worth even more still.

But ya, doing an additional 200k is ‘over tuned’…

4 Likes
5

Their dps is a complete outlier even on fights where healers don’t have time to stop healing. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a third round of tuning to their damage.

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And I wouldn’t be surprised if MW becomes a dead spec.

3 Likes
7

I would, do you know how many times people doom in this forum and it ends up largely nowhere?

6 Likes
8

in raid, and also, how close does MoH parse to that anyway? Conduit is only a 1:30 cd so idk how long the fight goes for but I’d guess you get to use it like a handful of times at most. This still just hurts us in m+, I don’t really raid. If conduit damage is the problem then nerf that not CJL/JE. Swamp face is already a super grindy single target fight that without CDs relies entirely on JE to get by on the rot damage. So nerfing it is going to make that fight even more more miserable than it already is. There’s no targets to cleave, who does this benefit?

In season 1 I said over and over on these forums that mw was in a bad state, because blizzards answers to all our problems was just to increase our damage rather than address those inadequacies and I also said that once they take that away mw will have nothing. Mfn nostradamus in here.

Oh yea it prolly won’t die outright or entirely. People gravitate towards simpler specs cause they just want to play the game not juggle 20k buffs and procs and stuff and even though mw has these I feel like they’re a lot easier to interpret or don’t even require knowing until very high keys for optimization. Like below 13 i don’t really care if I have zen pulse. If I do when i use vivify cool if not, not thinking about it.

I wish blizz would make it where complicated specs were outliers and simpler specs were the norm. They all have so much going on that isn’t easy to interpret without addons or make sense of without reading guides and tons of practice. I think it’s why ret paladin was so popular besides just all the utility and off healing it had. DH too. The button bloat is down and despite being a “simple” spec compared to some others it is very good.

But this post is about mw decay and the gatekeeping of end game content. The gatekeeping will worsen with every nerf. If damage really is the only reason that mw is relavant to anything then blizz should elevate our utility. Elusive mist is not really what I want or what we need most of the time. We don’t have a bres or external cheat death (hpriest wings,) don’t have a very practical external damage reduction, no stat buff like motw, fortitude, windfury. Mystic touch 5% is a thing but it’s not as good as 3% vers/mastery/stam most of the time. For very specific comps it’s useful and even then if priest can have PI and Fortitude, or shaman can have Lust and Windfury, then why can’t mw have something in addition to mystic touch? Something that actually makes them valuable to bring to any group comp.

Mystic touch works for phys dam comps? Oh thats nice, vers/mastery/stam works for every comp. Lust, PI, bres is good for every comp. And the meta is always dominated by magic damage anyway, so in a lot of groups you’re not even getting the full benefit of mystic touch. I know i’m beating a dead horse here.

We used to have an avoidance aura and healing bonus aura that got turned into exclusively personal things (and nerfed I think, pretty sure avoidance used to be 5% now it’s 4%) which isn’t great but it was something.

Once our damage reaches the point of average or subpar I’m pretty sure the spec will lose all relavance. What do we need to fill in our group? We need lust, bres, motw/fort/windfury. A a mw applied? What do they do? They used to do big damage now they just heal. That’s all? That’s all.

Hate to break it to blizz devs but all the specs heal, the other ones do more things

2 Likes
9

Of course a 15 anything is possible as MW, with a premade group. LFG is for grinding to 3k io, by then you should have enough people on your bnet from pugging to put together a decent group for pushing higher keys. This concept of “I wanna lfg to title range but not with the meta” is dumb and the game isn’t balanced around no com Andy’s who can’t be bothered to network a little in a social game.

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I am not running as high as you but my advice would be that you shouldn’t quit if you find your monk the most fun.

As I found out this season, playing my paladin for the bres and other utilities - it literally does not matter which healer you play if you are not meta. People don’t seem to be looking at utilities or anything else but meta and will take lower geared, lower scored meta toons over other classes even when it does not make any sense.

The problem is, like you said, with the way keys are designed and the community itself. If you re-rolled to druid for the rest of the season, you would also have to do the same again next season with whatever the fotm happened to not end up in the same situation. It’s just a giant hamster wheel of zero fun.

The only way to avoid this would be to just get friends to run with regularly so you can push higher without having to worry about meta.

11

And I have friends, but most of them aren’t pushing higher keys. There’s a few that do, but our time schedules don’t always match. We get 2 nights a week for a few hours. The rest of the time we’re pugging.

If M+ is ONLY for pre-mades, then just get rid of the group finder all together. Because at the moment it’s a feature for meta classes only.

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I actually mostly pug as well, because the people I know either aren’t very interested in M+ due to the stressful environment it encourages or are high end players only interested in playing with other high end players. I also happen to think that the system could use a re-vamp because the squish seems to have exacerbated instead of improving the issues with M+.

1 Like
13

Yea i pretty much stopped doing m+. I have some friends to play with sometimes and that’s fun but otherwise don’t care to sit in lfg for hours. i did it last season, don’t want to do it again this season. Even started doing pvp. Look at that can just qeue up and find a game. If only they could find a way to make m+ like that. Crazy. If only m+ had a system like this, this, qeue thing.

Whelp it’s beyond figuring out so not gonna bother. I timed 15s last season and pushed them as often as I could but when you start trying higher keys you’re just playing lfg, not the game. And that’s not how I want to spend my time. You shouldn’t either but that’s up to you.

1 Like
14

Right there with you. Last season same thing (timed 15/14). Can’t get a group in LFG. I spent all last week trying and got maybe 4 runs the entire week queuing for hours a day.

‘Run your own key’ they say. Which is basically impossible if you don’t know the tank (or aren’t tanking). Success in higher keys has almost nothing to do with how well you personally play, and completely comes down to routes. I’ve finished keys with 1 death, pulled hard the entire time, and still missed the timer because we didn’t do some stupid skip.

On top of that, every time a new patch comes out MW gets nerfed, and server stability has never been worse. They even managed to break weak auraslast patch /facepalm.

I want S1 back… or dragonflight back… or anything but this.

1 Like
15

Yea what’s up with this? I’ve been seeing holy priests and others getting absolutely insane dps but mw has to do tricks with trinkets and padding with SCK to make it seem like we’re doing a lot of damage when in reality we’re just padding the numbers.

Meanwhile, random hpriest joins my key does like 2m dps on a lot of pulls with their spells. What? Blizzard what?

Yea I pretty much stopped pugging entirely and only do some keys with my friends or on my alts. The push isn’t worth the time investment.

I also noticed blizzard didn’t make a class tuning patch note but that since tuesday (despite getting a myth ilvl upgrade) my CJL/JE hits 1.1m crit instead of 1.3m like I swear it was before tuesday. Even conduit seems lower. Did we get shadow nerfed? Did swapping between pvp and pve gear between matches/keys mess up some internal math in the game? What is even going on???

personal resource bar/buff bar broke with the addition of CD manager. It also broke many of my WAs on multiple toons. I had to fix some or get a WA pack and prune it back to track Teachings/BoK stacks without using the god awful CD Manager UI. If the point of the personal buff bar on my toon is that I don’t have to look away from the center of the screen to see those buffs, then why does the CD manager put it at the bottom of the screen? Sure I can move it but the numbers on the icons are too small too read if you scale the CD Manager down so that it doesn’t obstruct vision of what’s going on. Fixed it with a weak but it’s a strict down grade from the system they already had in place.

Then I’m reading today that dinars will only work on on bosses you’ve cleared at that difficulty. So I have to go prog mythic sprocketmonger for a bis trinket. What’s even the point of adding dinars blizzard? I do not want to mythic raid what absolute nonsense.

So easy to just check out from pushing this season it’s just one disappointment after another. I assume (unless they decide to nerf us some more) they’re done with mw for the season too. I hope that they don’t run any mws at tgp/mdi cause rwf 6 monks basically kill the class. You just know tho if they run resto druid or disc priest or rsham that blizzard not gonna do any tuning to them until after its over. Wouldn’t want to upset the important people.

I don’t think they read these forums at all tbh and whoever works on mw thinks we need more apm and less effective apms.

1 Like
16

It was in the notes. JE is still a 40x multiplier (in total with 5 targets) but they reduced the dmg to the primary target and boosted the cleave damage.

Agreed.

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Literally nothing has changed in regards to attack or spellpower coefficients.

Emperor’s Capacitor is the 40x multiplier, JE was reduced from 25x to 20x, but this was a change that went live on the 15th, not this Tuesday.

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Idk, despite getting ilvl upgrades of the exact same gear I had the damage/hps is down. Haven’t changed anything. Something is broke or something has changed or maybe my addon is bunk I honestly don’t know. But where I would very easily be around 3m hps or higher and feel comfortable doing those difficult pulls, it’s like 2m now. Details is lying or something is just wrong. I haven’t changed the way I play to my detriment afaik if anything only improved positioning on some fights but the numbers ARE down.

19

I’m not sure which nerf happened when, but JE has always been (since 11.0.5 AFAIK) a 40x multiplier in total.

Initially it was 800% on 5 targets, which is 40x. Now it’s 2000% on 1 target and 25% of the 2000% on 4 other targets, again 40x.

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Calling it a 40x multiplier is disingenuous because it only does that when there’s exactly 5 targets.