I havent been able to play DF yet and I was going to main mage but seeing this forum makes me want to switch to paladin or warlock, is it really that bad? I do mainly M+ and some raids
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People are being enormously dramatic… Mage is not that bad.
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Mage is in an okay spot depending only on spec and will come down to preference. Warlocks are in a strong position currently from what I’ve seen there doing very well.
For PvE Raid Arcane is currently the best and for Mythic+ it’s Arcane and or Frost.
Fire is gimped currently and the buff they gave us was a joke. Fire is still under tuned.
Since Fire is not in current Meta so trying to get into a Mythic+ isn’t easy and you spend a lot of time just getting declined a 6 or a 7…
It doesn’t help I’ve hated Frost since Vanilla and everytime I’ve tried it nothing has made me change my mind.
Arcane is well its alright but I’m just not that into it.
Fire is currently garbage and if I can predict anything I expect the small indy company Blizzard will buff Fire only prior to or at Season 2 because same old same old Blizzard doesn’t fix anything fast.
Sure I could swap to a new class but then all that effort I put into Renown this current Expansion is meaningless.
Got a few friends who did Mythic+ in prior expansions in an Off-Meta spec. There own words was “It was the worst gaming experience I had in a long time”.
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Lets say the skill gap is quite high with mages.
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there’s no skill gaps in frost mages. It’s simplest spec in the game. All you do is spam ice lance or proc stuff to spam ice lance.
It’s not 4D-chess rotation of arcane or being able to screw yourself with wrong button push as fire.
I dont’ play frost, never really did.
Arcane is the way to go, forever and ever !
If you do this, you will do no damage…
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Currently it really is that bad. I wouldn’t expect it to stay there the whole xpac, but I also wouldn’t suggest rolling based on current/future expectations and instead on what you like to play
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agreed.
I always wanted to main arcane and would/did when i played mage, but here recently I’ve decided to main fire cause i love how it plays mechanically and dabble into arcane and frost when i so choose. Love the talents trees though cause it allows those of us who like the theme of a general mage options instead of just spec related stuff. so refreshing!
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I’m curious as to precisely how badly a spec would need to be in terms of performance for the current vibe of the mage forum to be considered reasonable by your standards, or even just moderately dramatic instead of enormously so.
If you’re so inclined to illuminate me on this, I can meet you half way and provide some data:
Fire and Frost are the two worst performing dps specs in the raid currently, and it is not by a small margin. They have Heroic difficulty aggregate 75th percentile dps at 35.5K and 38.4K, respectively. The third worst performing spec is Survival Hunter at 42.9K, which is 19% and 11% percent higher than Fire and Frost, respectively. In other words, a flat buff of 10% to each of these specs would still leave them as the two worst performing specs in the raid. Keep in mind that percent difference is not the same as how much you would need to buff to achieve parody. The buff would have to exceed the percent difference to bring to an equivalent level.
The current median spec is Balance Druid which has an aggregate 75% percentile dps of 47.9K, which is 29% and 21% percent higher than Fire and Frost, respectively. In other words, a 20% flat buff to each of these specs would still leave them in the bottom half of specs in terms of raid performance.
The competition for top performing spec is very close between Marks and the three Rogue specs. Marks is coming in at 54.4K. That is 41% and 34% higher than Fire and Frost, respectively. So, a 40% flat buff to both of these specs would still land them under the top 4 performing specs thus far in raid.
For clarity, that means it would take a 21% and 11.5% buff to Fire and Frost to bring them up to the third worst spec, a 34% and 24% buff to bring them to a median performance level, and 53% and 41% buffs to bring them to the top of the list.
warcraftlogscom/zone/statistics/31#difficulty=4&aggregate=amount (you’ll have to replace with a dot and add the www and http bits because I can’t post links in Blizzard forums.)
Given Blizzards propensities to: 1. Delay balancing until after the completion of the World First Race 2. Buff/Nerf in relatively small 3-7% increments and 3. Neglect mage feedback (see also: Beta BFA, Live BFA, Beta SL, Live SL, Beta DF, etc.) I’d say there is justifiable reason for concern that perhaps the outlook for these two specs is quite poor.
Now, back to the question. In light of this data, how much worse would frost and fire need to be in order for the sentiments being espoused in the mage forum to be considered appropriately matched to their current state?
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So basically if ROP was removed and that 40% was baked into all of their damage mages would be balanced?
Because from the sounds of it ROP is what has ruined mages.
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I wouldn’t say people are being dramatic at all. What is being blown out of proportion is due to people’s seeming inability to distinguish between valid criticism and whining.
Personally, I have been consistently and highly critical of the direction the devs have taken Arcane since Legion but I have continued to play the spec in spite of that and have been able to accomplish everything I have wanted to in the game.
Just because I disagree with decisions the devs are making and voice that concern doesn’t mean I have given up on Mages altogether. That said, Mages really aren’t in a good spot at the moment and I certainly wouldn’t recommend them to player who aren’t experienced with the spec and certainly not to newer players when they can do much better DPS on far easier specs.
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Lets be honest here if another Class could cast a 5% Intellect buff right now would raids even want a mage?
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The raid is a week old? Yea fire sucks and ice isn’t much better. Arcane is in a decent spot and much better than the SL version IMHO. Every forum has people thinking their class is trash… Sure fire isn’t as good as it normally is but so what, I’m sure it will get buffed eventually.
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I have been in and out of this forum since DF launch, trying to decide if Mage was the way to go after stepping away from Boomie. I’ve been playing Arcane, I didn’t like it so much in SL, but right now it is probably the most enjoyable spec I’ve been playing. If I had just read the forums and said never mind I wouldn’t know that.
The damage is good enough for me, my overall is either 1st (with sub par melee I suppose and lucky crits) or 2nd, but never last (M+). She’s a bit squishy if she gets caught in a bad situation but it’s not any worse than evoker. Lol. And because the rotation is what it is, it feels smoother to me which is what I wanted since balance Druid is so all over the place. From my limited experience in DF it doesn’t seem that bad but I can see why it wouldn’t appeal to some people.
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There you go… Mage buffs… Told you.
ofcourse i don’t mean literally only ice lance. But you get so many procs of fingers and flurries that absolute majority of your time - you will spam ice lance.
I’ve even watched like four separate guides on frost just to make sure i’m not missing anything about our “rotation”
I mean sure, and losing an arm to a gator isn’t THAT bad.
Woot, 6%. That will really help with the 3rd lowest spec being 11% above, and the top dps specs 30% above.
Honestly OP, play whatever you want. If you aren’t doing cutting edge content it probably won’t matter, but if you pug then be prepared for the community to auto-reject you if you’re Fire or Frost for the next 6-12 months.
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Logs already there.
Thoughts? Arcane that is our better spec is MID of the pac. Frost and Fire are in the very bottom
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No. I am the only mage in my raid group and it’s not an accident. If a better mage came along I’d be benched. If I don’t learn the 4D chess rotation of arcane I will be benched, I’m sure.
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