The negative complaints are generally from players who expected one thing but got another,
Evoker range has been advertised as mid-range, and people know it, and some people haven’t accepted it.
like Aug not being a tank
People still want a tank spec (in place of aug sometimes.)
I haven’t seen anyone complain about empower since they fixed the issues it had when it sometimes dry fired (that was annoying)
The worst thing about empower is that you can’t macro it, and still use press and hold.
WTB Dracthyr prescription eyeglasses.
I can’t see as far as all the other RDPS I hang around with.
Please open up an optician shop in Valdrakken.
I don’t understand why people get so hung up on ‘long range, good mobility and ability to cast moving would be bad for evoker.’ As others have stated, other ranged classes have more freedom of movement anyway.
If I try to consider what would happen if we got that range: Evokers would by and large find playing more enjoyable. As mentioned before, power isn’t an issue. It’s not an issue with the more mobile mages or BM, so there’s no reason it would be an issue with evoker either.
‘But more people would play evoker if it was like that’ you say? Why is that? Maybe some players prefer playing characters like that? If those players would enjoy it more, and it wouldn’t negatively effect other players, it seems like a big win.
Perhaps many players enjoy having their spells constantly interrupted by requiring movement and playing mechanics - that’s fine. There are plenty of caster classes that offer that challenge anyway.
I also really don’t understand the mindset of ‘well then what advantage would melee have? Why not make melee range 40yrds?’ That’s kind of like saying ‘No, don’t let them have more fun. Why would we play melee if ranged could move freely?’ I’d suggest that argument is null and void due to BM hunters already existing. Trying to stop other people actually enjoying the game more because you’re worried about them having an easier time or not being able to beat them on the meters is a very toxic mindset if you ask me. Besides, I’m fairly sure that evokers wouldn’t currently win on damage in a situation where they never move.
‘If you want to feel mobile and free to move, why not play melee or hunter?’ Personally, I don’t enjoy the camera view and how stacked all the people and spell effects are in melee, and because I also prefer the fantasy and theme, spells and rotation of evoker. Again, if lots of people would enjoy the game more with longer range, why try to stop it?
Because despite you claiming the contrary, our mobility is too strong if we get 40 yds and would have to be nerfed considerably. Hover is incredibly powerful when used correctly, and at 40 yds it would be beyond broken for the dps specs (especially in things like PvP, though Blizz hasn’t cared about that in forever).
As I’ve stated many times, if they gave a choice node between hover and 40 yds, I’d be all for this option. Those that like the playstyle as is could continue to play it, and players that don’t enjoy playing in mid-range could opt out of the playstyle to get the range.
This would also give Blizz a little more freedom with encounter design, as if we HAD to take 40 yds for a fight (something like Nymue in a raid that is light on range, for instance) we could do that.
The reason is that it’s a different class and not everything needs to be homogenized just because people struggle with it. Mages are also not more mobile over the course of a fight than evoker by any stretch of the imagination.
The hero trees also universally afford for even more choices to improve mobility uptime (and survivability), so this is even less of an issue moving forward if you find it to be one for you now.
Only BM hunters have more freedom of movement, and they perform far worse than we do (and historically are in the bottom 50th percentile most of the time, which is fair given their ease of play and toolkit).
Evoker has a relatively simple dps rotation/playstyle, because the skill expression/curve of the class is positioning and intelligent hover/VE/rescue usage to maintain that positioning.
If you’re playing the spec well, this is not happening. Our movement and defensive abilities are proactive, not reactive. This is a pretty big paradigm shift from a lot of classes and has understandably been met with mixed reviews, but that doesn’t mean that the class ‘needs’ range when it has done very well all expansion.
It’s more than fair not to like the range and you’re entitled to that opinion, but that doesn’t mean that it needs to be changed.
For DPS, you’re just another melee class that has somewhat longer range and casting times. Yes, its awkward but it is doable. Yes, no other class has to deal with this garbage.
For healing, the range limitations are a pretty large hindrance, an albatross on the class, just like old Holy Priest’s talent trees. (For context, most of old Holy priest talent and class build punished you for Blizzard’s raid design by separating your single target and AoE heals to the point that you were good / terrible at one of the other, or poor at both … and the cherry on top was that many of your talents had stupid drawbacks, none of which were problems that any other healers faced. You definitely did NOT take your holy priest for tank healing in raids.) P.Evoker is in the same boat with spread fights, the instant we get another Halondrus-type fight where nobody can stack, the preservation evokers will be warming the bench. I mean, what are you going to do, living flame everyone up during high damage periods? Sheesh. You’re only covering 40% of the area that any other healer can reach (25^2/40^2)
I still don’t understand your view - why would it be broken even if evoker were able to move and cast 100% of the time? Why is that an issue? Obviously if any class climbed way above the others in terms of raw damage, it would need tuning. However, why should a more enjoyable, mobile, simple class be less powerful, like you’ve suggested with BM? If the argument is ‘because everyone would play it,’ does that not tell you that that’s what players want? And if that’s what players want, why not let them have it?
If your issue is that allowing more freedom of movement would make the game in its entirety too easy, then there are arguably far better ways of improving that situation. For example, figuring out a way to reduce the use of addons / weakauras that specifically focus on awareness and solving mechanics for the players. The sort that even people in the top guilds don’t want.
I’m not sure I agree with your point about skill expression because of how many very skilled and top tier evokers also want the range increase. If anyone wanted skill expression (for the right reasons, and not just because they want show they are better than other people), I feel it would be them. And I think their view on how to develop skill expression for evoker would lie elsewhere in the way evokers are built.
Your suggestion about a node that lets you choose between 40 yard range and move hovers is an interesting one. It would definitely be interesting to have that option for different fights.
Given that my comment was referring to other classes, and having played destro warlock in season 2, I completely disagree. There were most certainly times that you had to stop casting or when you couldn’t cast optimally during movement / mechanics. Having casts interrupted is definitely part of the game for some classes more than others.
This is my exact point though. Personally I’m not too fussed about the range for dev. My issue is more with people who are wanting to try to block a change like this when the majority of people would enjoy it and desire it. I feel particularly bad for the poor pres evokers out there who are currently feeling extremely frustrated with the range limit.
BM hunter exists. Why do we need BM hunter again?
The majority of people seem to have some expectation that they can get 40 yards without actually giving anything up. Those of us living in reality are aware that 40 yards wouldn’t come free.
Even if it does not come at the cost of mobility, it’ll come at the cost of dps. (BM hunter should always be towards the bottom in an ideal world.)
I get you, but I still don’t see why something would need to be given up. Is the thinking that if we had 40 yard range, we would suddenly overtake the other ranged dps in logs?
Why though? Why do people want BM to be weaker just because its easier? Are we saying that power and damage potential should be directly related to rotation / clas complexity? Because this has never been consistantly the case and focusing on just a couple of more simple classes and wanting them to be weak seems like a really weird take.
Yeah I don’t think dps has been taxed for utility/mobility for quite a while. Dps wouldn’t be touched.
It’s not because it’s easier. It’s because it has 100% uptime.
BM hunters are near last, and the last round of buffs, did not buff bm hunter damage wise.
They may be near last now, though this has not been the case throughout this season. Is it, then, that people fear that with higher uptime, bliz will overly nerf us? Surely bliz would only do that if we started drastically climbing the logs. I am sure that Bliz have said themselves that they tend to make adjustments to the top and bottom performing specs to bring them more in line. I also think that a big nerf is very unlikely as I don’t think that for most content, our range is the most significant factor keeping us at the bottom of the logs. It certainly doesn’t justify the range for pres and aug.
Aug is a top performing ghost.
And if arguing for more mobility and range, why not for everyone (not just evoker.) That’s silly.
MM hunters have like 50 yard range or something, give that to everyone.
(Balance in the game will be non-existent, and pvp will be an even bigger mess.)
If evoker is behind in dps, buff dps. Don’t need range.
Personally, I agree with mobility. If I had it my way, all classes would be able to move while casting like in other MMOs and it feels a lot smoother and more comfortable in my opinion. That said, the main point of this thread is to address range issues, not to try to add additional mobility. As for range, I sort of see why they want to make MM hunters feel special with the extra range, but I absolutely agree that all other range should have 40 or 45ft, and the point is that they pretty much all do except for evoker. I don’t think most classes playing feel frequently frustrated by their range limit, or that fights have been designed without their class limits in mind. Evokers do, which is why this is a discussion, is it not?
I don’t think many people here are asking for the range to buff their dps. It’s to improve quality of life and enjoyment playing the game. So, I agree. If dps is an issue, buff it, or nerf it accordingly. But also, make changes to the game so that players enjoy it more.
some people might not like the idea of being in melee with melee classes. Should those classes also have 40 yard range?
Seems silly, doesn’t it?
I tried holy paladin, hated being in melee, stopped playing it. (And ranged was inferior.)
This is a very weird take. Surely people who play melee are people who enjoy playing in melee with their melee classes. Fights are designed with melee in mind, and with ranged in mind. The problem is that the ‘range’ they are designed for is returning towards the longer range of other classes.
I still don’t really understand your beef with a change to range though. Are you trying to say that you would enjoy playing evoker significantly less if you had more range? If so, why? And do you believe that it outweighs how much people would enjoy playing evoker more with increased range? What percentage of people playing evoker would prefer more range?
Evoker is mid-ranged, advertised as such, and I want it to remain.
If people want more range, they could play, everything else.
So, your main reason why you want to stop everyone who wants increased range to improve their gaming experience from receiving such a change is because: evoker was advertised as mid range and you want it to stay that way’ ? Surely there must be more to it?