Shifting Power needs to do something other than cooldown reduction

Cooldown reduction is a very useful ability to have in certain cases, as it allows you to make awesome plays like back to back burst timings or double counterspell.

However, those moments are few and far between and overall the contribution of CDR to every ability we have hasn’t really netted much positive results.

Abilities are still tuned around their uptime.

Just because we cast X more often, doesn’t mean we’ll do X% more damage than normal because you’ll be tuned to deal 1/X% less damage anyway to keep up with others, so it doesn’t add much in practice. All Shifting Power ends up doing is accelerating the tempo of the rotation, and honestly the game has already become a lot faster. We don’t need that.

Cooldowns aren’t sync’d up anymore unless you keep them off cooldown intentionally, and this isn’t always intuitive or even beneficial in practice.

We don’t have many abilities on the 1min CD of SP, so naturally you end up delaying Shifting Power til it’s needed OR delaying cooldowns for a burst phase OR etc etc… There’s too much if and or’ing needed to play the specs due the nature of CDR. Things should be more straightforward than this.

Even worse, sometimes you have to use Shifting Power to get utility cds off cooldown faster so you don’t troll your M+ group. What should be a beneficial control spike ends up making things annoying to keep track of, as now you’re not sure where you were in the DPS rotation when things in M+ are hectic enough as it is.

In my opinion, CDR is only interesting if your entire spec is built around it (like Outlaw) or if it targets only one ability at a time, usually an active damage ability that you want to use on CD. Anything else can be annoying to play around.

Trinkets aren’t even affected!

So what ends up happening is that you either delay your burst for them (especially if there’s an ideal burst phase), or you delay your trinket. You introduced a delay after using an ability that presumably reduced delays. It’s not fun.


I think Shifting Power’s visual update was really good, but honestly the only thing that feels good from using it in practice is the increased uptime on utility spell availability like Counterspell or DB.

I’d suggest making Shifting Power be changed to do anything else. You can even remove the CDR and just make it an AOE damage spell so we just use it more simply.

To keep the utility benefits, introduce a new talent that operates much like Cold Snap that reduces the cooldown of our utility spells by x seconds on a 1min cd. This would retain the benefits of SP while removing the unnecessary impact on DPS.

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I 100% agree with everything you posted here. I’ve always been against the concept of SP, and was a little peeved that it made its way out of Trashlands where it at least made some sense from a story perspective.

As you noted, CDR means nothing if it’s just expected, and feels bad when it de-syncs abilities/trinkets. It sucks even more when there are clear phases with downtime, as you rarely see the benefits of it (but are absolutely tuned around it being constant).

As for making it purely a damage spell. Why? I can see if somewhat making sense for Arcane, but Frost and to a lesser extent Fire have their own thing going on, and an extra “must use on cd” ability added to their M+ rotation isn’t needed. What’s more is that tuning a damage ability across 3 specs becomes less simple.

Personally, I’d prefer to just see it gone. If it’s the case where CDs no longer feel right, then tune them slightly. I don’t think anyone was upset that IV was made a 2 minute cooldown when the CDR from crits was removed. I’m absolutely fine with knocking a little bit of time off our major CDs, and I think a lot of people would agree.

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And neither is Mana Gem because it’s a conjured item with a cooldown rather than being a cooldown itself, which annoys me to no end!

Agreed.

They whitelisted Mana Gem to be affected by Shifting Power going in to this xpac (thankfully).

This is an undeniably good point.

Having largely skipped Trashlands am I correct in assuming that Night Fae wasn’t the first choice for Frost and Arcane?

It was the choice for Fire because more Combustion uptime and more charges for Fire Blast and Phoenix Flames, which probably offsets any negatives Fire suffers from desyncing. Combustion becoming more of a maintenance buff versus a damage cooldown has been discussed around here more than once already, but I’m wondering if the reason they chose SP as one of the covenant abilities to live on is because of its importance to the Fire rotation which they didn’t want to radically re-design, at least not right now.

Again, while I like Fire’s current iteration, I know that you and others already aren’t crazy about it. Maybe it would have been better to make SP a Fire tree capstone and put something more universally beneficial in the class tree? Just spitballing from my armchair.

Oh my man, don’t play a sub rogue…

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I did in MOP actually and back then there was a trinket that reduced the CD of the main cooldown by some amount, and I thought it was really fun!

But it was just one ability, not everything.

SP is quite nice for Fire, but could really benefit from a choice node that Arcane could get some more mileage out of. There’s a reason only Fire really took it in SL…

Yeah it’s also quite nice for Arcane in theory. Just use it after every major burst period.

Just sucks in practice. You accelerate your rotation for no gain because you are tuned around your output, among other things.

In SL, at least you were making mutually exclusive choice with other covenants so it was still advantageous compared to other mages. Now everyone has it. There’s no advantage for anyone.

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That’s exactly it and devs are acting like it’s not a factor at all. Straight up copy and pasting the SL covenant stuff created a major mess by bloating everyone’s rotation. Can you imagine if we still had all the Azerite powers? This is why we kept telling them that these expansion specific systems were a terrible idea and that just because it worked out once with the Legion artifacts it doesn’t mean that it could be replicated over and over with each expansion.

In fact, just the opposite proves to be true and each successive iteration of these systems was worse than the one before until they finally gave up on them in DF. Except they really didn’t because they just exported most of the SL crap into the new talent trees and called it a day.

I honestly don’t know how they’re going to extricate themselves from this quagmire and I am extremely worried that the so called hero talent trees are going to be more of the same when what we really need is major overhauls of each of the old specs (especially of the original 9 classes).

The way I see it, a best case scenario would be more of what we saw in the middle of DF with mid expansion reworks that don’t go far enough and this would go on for god knows how long until the specs are gradually updated and modernized over a long period of time. I really think the game would have benefited much more from a deep dive rework that addressed all of these issues even if it meant a long time with no new content rather than churning out new expansions and slapping bandaids on an increasingly leaky ship to keep it afloat as we chug along to the next expansion.

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I also largely skipped Trashlands, because of how terrible it was. I picked Fae because of the aesthetics, but I seem to recall that the blue guys were best for Arcane (radiant spark, which also got copied to DF), and Frost I think was necro or the other one? Either way, the “choice” was largely forced on players, with clear winners for each covenant and no real option to just pick none of them. Really disappointed that NuBlizzard’s whole schtick is just to take things from borrowed-power systems and add them into the next expansion, then call it new.

Hmm… I think covenants was slightly better than Azerite, and certainly better than corruptions. The weird gems in either 1st or 2nd raid felt really off too. Can’t remember which expansion that was. But yeah, the borrowed-power systems which often get switched up between tiers have felt really gross. It worked for Artefacts in Legion (the legendaries did not), but each version has just been awful. The only thing worse than the original is the recycled versions. Just no. Systems on top of systems within systems always felt really bad, and made it seem like the dev team had no idea what the next patch was bringing. Just make the classes work baseline, and everyone’s happy.

Absolutely. Don’t get me wrong, the new trees and subsequent rework made things much better than the previous 2 expansions, but they never adressed the underlying cause of any of the problems the 3 specs had. Mages are in a better spot than they have been for years, but you’re 100% correct in that what we really needed was to have everything deleted and to start from the ground up. Whether it worked or not with current devs is a whole other issue, but at the very least it would have been something new. Instead, we got “new” talent tree with recycled stuff, and the same base mechanics and problems the specs have had for the better part of 2 decades.

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The covenant system does give me some pause around the Hero Talent trees - I can’t imagine a scenario where one isn’t simply better for any given spec. This means that either:

  1. A considerable amount of effort will be diverted from updating the actual spec trees to tuning the system du jour, so as to give players more choice. Because each tree is going to impact two specs, this will be somewhat of a balancing nightmare, to the point that the way each talent node interacts with a spec will become so different as to almost defeat the point of a blended spec (e.g. talent X does A to Pyroblast and B to Arcane Missiles), barring the introduction of new active abilities which will also be a pain to balance across two specs. OR

  2. Much like SL, it will simply be accepted that a given spec will gravitate to one Hero tree option, and at that point we’re just e.g. Fire/Arcane mages, Frost/Arcane mages, and Arcane/Fire mages. Wouldn’t it then just be better to update/iterate on the existing trees instead of diluting spec identity with a convoluted new system with cascading balance effects?

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You are correct… as I recall, necro was the choice (god i kinda miss that spell)

A button that you press just to reduce cooldowns is so goofy. That should be naturally baked into the spec or the spec shouldnt have CDR.

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Indeed. It has legitimately zero DPS value outside of niche use cases for burst, because you are still tuned around uptime.