With quicker casts, you are sniping more not overhealing.
The idea is that you have one wave of chain heal that lands quicker to help keep players out of risk while another slower wave reinforces it for greater healing. T2.5 has higher HPS but weaker casts.
do not try to enhance for pvp (until TBC)… sure you might get some WF crits and might 1 shot people in garbage gear but most players will destroy you. Seriously, it’s not a knock on shaman either, they are a BEAST as elemental. But no lie when I see enhance shaman I go after them quicker than I would a cloth user lol
Boz I didn’t say that at all. Having people put words in my mouth as a way of forwarding their argument is somewhat frustrating.
CH will always do the heavy lifting.
However Tier 2.5 adds 5% resultant HP/sec to Rank 1 CH, and sub 10% to Rank 3 CH…that’s it!
It only achieves those values because you are sacrificing over 200 +healing to gain the set bonus…because it also forces you to use TS wrists.
You will cast faster, however you will lose over 300 HPs per cast.
My main contention though is its not needed for any content in game.
Battleguard, as one of the examples you brought up, should cap at around 500 HP/sec from a Shaman. If its appreciably more then that, then others aren’t nearly carrying their own weight. A Shaman can heal 50% more than that with Rank 1 without the haste bonus.
And I also agree you should have heal assignments to avoid healing on initial cast…the rest is handled by its “smart” cast function.
My point was, in referring to the OP, is its sub optimal to be laser focused on Tier 2.5, when its not necessary, and hes playing catch up.
He is probably better off grabbing uncontested offslots to bring his +healing up, getting 3pc TS, fleshing out short term with 20 mans, and then prepping for Naxx.
Tier 2.5 is quality of life, its very strong HP/sec, but measured against content, it simply isn’t necessary by any stretch.
It’s considered BiS soley because of HP/sec, but Shamans already excel at that, they don’t need the 5% or 10% added to CH…because they won’t chain heal encounters that hard.
Don’t take my word for it, look at logs for Battleguard, no one is chain casting within 25% of 2.65s…let alone 2.25s.
There is only so much raid damage to go around, its a relatively static value based on raid comp.
Once again your arguing against the set being the best for its purpose just because its not “needed” based on your assumption that you will always get heals off in time even with the slower cast time
It still doesn’t change the fact that it IS better than +healing gear for mass raid healing
The OP showed interest in wanting to pvp
Tier 2.5 is the BEST set for pvp on a shaman
He would get absolutely zero use out of all that +healing gear in pvp, his spell power and crit chance would be trash and he would be wearing a bunch of cloth and leather making him squishy AF, so he would still need a completely different gear setup for pvp
So i would say in the OPs case tier 2.5 SHOULD be his number one focus, if those other +healing pieces actually are uncontested theres no reason why he can’t be picking those up on the way towards persuing 2.5
Yes, Its been theorycrafted and tested to death and the conclusion is 2.5 is bis for raid healing
I suppose it depends on what you mean by ‘raid healing’.
T2.5 is great for very short, intense damage on stacked raids. However, this describes almost none of the boss fights in AQ40 - and not necessarily all that many fights in Naxx.
Not everything is about BOSS fights
Those kind of fights are in pretty much every raid in the trash mob pulls between bosses
If you are speed running raids trash mob pulls are where most of the actual difficulty is
A lot of the speed run pulls require you to be spamming rank 3 chain heals for pretty much the entire duration of the fights
Shouldn’t this thread revolve around what sets look the best over silly things like efficiency and effectiveness?
There isn’t a single fight where you are nonstop casting CH the entire time, what’s required for 2.5 to outheal t2 plus offsets without a ton of overhealing. FYI, sniping heals generally causes other people to overheal as well.
Which is why I advocate for a mix. We don’t have excessive overhealing. There are moments where intense chain healing is essential.
Any fight that features light healing, we twist.
I agree that some fights may benefit from this at certain times when there is unexpected raid dmg. I have been a split second from a cast going off when people go down before.
I don’t think it’s worth the + healing penalty for the other 95% of the time though. If there’s lots of unexpected raid dmg going out where .4 secs off CH will keep multiple people alive, it’s probably a wipe anyways as someone/multiple people screwed up.
A mix works great I agree, but if you aren’t spamming CH the whole time, 2.5 won’t outheal 3pc and offsets.
Twin emps for example, I mainly heal single target on my side and throw out ch into blizzards and when melee are running by after/during killing bugs.
Not every healer can gear off pieces at a good rate. Raid loot is fixed. We’ve only obtained one boots of pure thought in Classic, that is a significant piece.
Being able to prioritise T2.5 to several healers helps ease the vacuum of off pieces.
While the difference between T2.5 and pure optimal 3 pc T3 + off pieces. It is arguably quicker to obtain.
Twins is a bad example. 1 or 2 shaman at most should be wearing 3 pc T2 on that fight and not T2.5 at all.
Yeah I mean if that’s the best you have access to then 100% do it. We prio tokens to war rogue but if we don’t get lucky on idols we give tokens to shams as well.
I’m not against 2.5 by any means. I will eventually get it for fun and pvp maybe saph or some naxx fights where raid dmg is crazy will be good.
I just don’t agree that in actual raids (outside of spreadsheets and such) that its actually far superior to 3pc and offsets like some people claim.
Its simple really.
Tier 2.5 sacrifices 208 + healing for .4s faster cast time.
If your average Rank 1 CH is 1900 in 2.25s…that equates to 844 HP/sec.
Not using Tier 2.5 average Rank 1 CH will land for 2193 in 2.65s that equates to 828 HP/sec.
You have looted 5 times in primary armor slots.
+healing Shaman have looted twice…Robe of the Guardian Saint and Bracelets of Royal Redemption.
Whether a Loot Council or DKP system, a +healing Shaman has more loot available to them… to loot other pieces… to gain more healing stats.
You WON’T be out healing anyone. Even two marginal upgrades and +healing will match you…+healing loots their scepter first, due to better loot position, they will outheal you.
Even without considering that see saw of loot, nearly 850 HP/sec is 50% more than is needed for any given fight…and that’s without twisting in Rank 3 for more HP/sec.
As to the OP, which is what I was referencing, there are gobs of PvP loot available, that can be free or cheap that is nearly as good for Ele PvP including Ten Storms, Zandalar, DE Shoulers, etc that can be done in Pugs and gained for free.
Moreover once you enter Naxx, you will break your Tier 2.5 bonus first…and again you will heal less. Additionally every time you cast a LHW you will cast for less.
Stormcaller’s is a nice set for healing, considering the reduced emphasis on MP/5 or longevity, however the haste bonus doesn’t translate into increased HP/sec until your ENTIRE gear set is fleshed out…and by that time the content is so trivial neither set really matters. That also means your in a weaker position in early Naxx when you break Tier 2.5.
As to the catastrophic fustercluck of a melee grabbing aggro on the boss and turning damage into the raid…really?! As content progresses and becomes less error forgiving, those very errors frequently result in death. Having melee eat a Poison Shock to the face just before a Web Spray is an example of that. They will use their Health Stones and Pots or die during something like that.
Ok we get it, you’re a hipster that thinks they know better than the ENTIRE wow community when it comes to gearing.
There is no set of gear better than 2.5 for pvp, and the amount of raid lock outs it would take to cobble together a set anywhere near comparable would be huge unless you had godlike rng with no one contesting you for loot and it would still be inferior
2.5 is guaranteed to drop EVERY time. And is the BEST for both pvp AND aoe raid healing
You cant even deny that, it IS more hps, you’re entire argument is just “but you dont need it tho”
You’re wrong, 2.5 is a really good set for healing, just give it up
I dont understand why you seem to have this “anti 2.5” agenda, stop trying to dissuade the OP from pursuing a solid set
You keep arguing points I have NEVER made. Stormcaller’s is BiS for PvP…but it’s not overpowering compared to other pieces, and for Ele only the 3 piece has any bearing on your damage output in terms of set bonus.
You need to learn to read.
Looting happens slowly over time, its not instantaneous in nature. During the looting process you won’t AoE out heal a +healing Shaman because they will have other loot opportunities earlier than you.
The problem with BiS lists, isn’t just their frequent inaccuracy, but also their assumption that you will enter AQ 40 and receive it all at once…which never happens.
I never said it wasn’t.
What I clearly said is that for a fresh level 60, pushing DKP, or LC opportunities into Stormcaller’s is sub optimal when joining an AQ40 raid force…that is probably still doing BWL.
Getting geared up and being effective as early as possible is the most important thing to a fresh 60 trying to raid. Loot that would otherwise rot on the ground will probably be had for free or at a discount to bring him up to speed.
I don’t have an “anti 2.5” agenda.
What I have is a realistic approach to loot for a fresh level 60 raider.
Your viewpoint of a raid healing Shaman, riding in on their white horse, to save the day, utilizing a HUGE HP/sec advantage, that doesn’t actually exist… to be a tactical raid hero, is what I find to be unrealistic.
Your creating far fetched scenarios, that simply don’t exist, to try to justify one specific gear strategy, that the OP might not find themselves in.
I assume you entered AQ40 with your gear fleshed out, with either DKP or LC opportunities available, ready to go for AQ…the OP won’t.
I’m just trying to point out that being laser focused into 1 loot strategy being a mistake.
I’m anti 2.5 because all the sets for shamans look cool including 2.5. It’s time to put shamans in something awful looking like pally cloth healing sets.
OP didn’t ask how to slowly progress from fresh 60, they asked what sets are good
You apparently must only ever raid with the most elite group of chad gamers if you think the scenarios i gave as examples are “far fetched”
Really?!
They were trying to clear up misinformation regarding healing well in raids with what sets.
Neither you nor I will know what loot opportunities he will face, or what raid guild he will join, or what content he will face at what level.
Nor will we know what loot system he will be involved in, do they have alt raid nights to flesh out gear, or does his server have a healthy pug environment.
Your stance however has been to push 2.5 down his throat like its the end all for raid healing…which I found to be narrow and misinformed with some of your assertions.
I haven’t exaggerated a single piece of data, nor created improbable situations to support my position, nor made accusations that you have said things you didn’t.
Your guilty of that, I’m not.