You’re obsessed with presenting information/statistics and simultaneously having no idea why things look that way. You’re stuck on surface level. It’s hilarious that you keep using this “professional” style of talking, layered in word vomit, to mask that same fact - that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Also, the lack of response to the discord comment leads me to believe that really was you. Glad they think the same of you there as I do here lmao
I don’t use “any style” of talking. This is just how I write. Maybe it rubs people the wrong way - I don’t know why. And I honestly don’t even know “what” exactly I’m doing wrong when I write.
That said - if you want to talk about any of the information/statistics I presented - and point out to me exactly how I’m so wrong, then I’d love to talk about it…but this conversation isn’t really going anywhere valuable.
As for your last point - I try not to respond to personal attacks. I at least try to remain on topic.
Dear god you really are insufferable. I am glad you boast your terrible opinions and carry the torch of being absolutely correct unless proven (for the n^6263rd time) that your takes are bad. There are more than enough responses. Even common sense can tell you why the specific example here, key parses, is completely irrelevant.
Stay mediocre at the game and annoying though. Ele friend gave me some new info too: if it really is you, you weren’t shunned out of the discord, but banned lmao (edit: and I can see why)
I really don’t understand your (or the two others) issue with me.
I’m only trying to discuss things related to Shaman and how to help the specs going forward. I try to present data when people say “something isn’t the case” etc.
If you have a specific problem with any of my opinions, then present a counter-opinion, it is what it is. Don’t just call me “insufferable”, “dumb” etc. It’s not even conducive to the discussion that the class needs. Also, you kinda came back into the thread out of nowhere just to call me names.
I’m done responding to misinterpretations and name-calling. I will, however, remain present to discuss things related directly to shamans and their specs going forward…in the event that it does end up helping the class in some way.
I find it kind of funny that aside from all the name-calling and hand-waving, no one has really offered an actual counter-point or argument against what you’ve been saying about shaman and how it’s been performing. It’s just been a lot of ad hominem, fallacious responses. And the community council member dredging up a debate from a completely separate post is disconcerting.
Statistics can be manipulated to tell many stories, but looking at class representation in certain levels of content, DPS rankings, etc are all very valid and relatively straightforward to show numerically. Pointing out a class has lower DPS or player count with the data available to us from WCL or raider io isn’t exactly rocket science or easily refutable.
There are certainly different opinions for WHY a class might have low numbers, and how to get those numbers up, but to argue with the relatively straightforward numbers themselves is asinine.
Trying for sure, not landing at all. There’s a reason you were banned from the discord lmao
The WHY is what gives the numbers actually meaning. Linking class representation numbers, dps rankings, (hilariously) key parses of all things, without understanding WHY the data looks like that, accomplishes nothing. It’s incredibly dumb.
Using this surface level information as the base for an argument, as our neighborhood annoyance Avih has done all over the place here, means nothing.
The fact this moron keeps linking numbers while more than several people have already explained the why is missing from his shallow “analysis” is why I continue to flame. You can look at the beginning of this thread for some prime examples. If you’d like to hop on board, I can certainly lump y’all together.
So then go ahead and give your counter-argument and reasoning for why the data looks the way it does. So far all I’ve seen is you flaming someone else for simply stating that DPS shamans have low representation in M+20 keys, which is simply a fact that can be easily verified after looking at the unique class population stats on raider io.
All I’ve seen is Avih pointing out that irrefutable data point, and you attacking it.
Now I can say that I think the reasons for this is x, y, and z, which you can disagree with, but you’re arguing against the wind here. You’re saying the sky isn’t blue when, yup, I just checked outside and it is in fact blue.
It’s been given, if you bothered to actually read the thread. You’re either being willfully obtuse or your lack of simple logic is as bad as the government workers.
I did read the thread, and I stand by my comments.
Toodles.
Historical fact with near 20 years of proof - shaman has always been a lower represented class, even when they perform extremely well.
Historical fact with near 20 years of proof - meta classes and/or specs will see an increase in play as the difficulty increases as the people who push higher will also play the best performing specs.
These two facts, which you cannot refute other than sticking your head in the sand, are more than enough to disprove the drivel he and now you are trying to peddle.
Toodles indeed.
I think that’s the point everyone is trying to make. Not sure how you missed that above.
In either event - why is Ret (right now) meta - and why isn’t enhancement?
What can we suggest - to help Enhancement (and Elemental) get better.
You claim to be a data scientist and government worker, and yet you can’t answer this simple riddle on your own is why you were banned from the discord.
p.s. the top ret is 3900 and the top enh is 3800. Therre isn’t some vast sea in performance between the two like you’re trying to claim. Once again you fail to understand the data. You’ve already been told multiple times why shaman doesn’t see as much play.
I mean ok…i’ll bring another set of data into things - since the claim is that it’s “always been like that”…
Retribution: 58,446
Enhancement: 28,601
Retribution: 1,418
Enhancement: 1,048
Enhancement had roughly half the players at key level 20…but as the difficulty increased, Enhancement gained in popularity when compared to Ret.
Retribution: 23,371
Enhancement: 7,728
Retribution: 41
Enhancement: 50
Enhancement, again - gained a huge portion of the representation as difficulty went up.
This is not the trend we see currently in season 3. I’d like to try to find a solution to the trend - not continue the name-calling and so on.
The data that I’ve linked shows that in DF season 1 Enhance had a comparable share to the mythic plus keys as another similar spec (Retribution) (ie. the spec didn’t diminish in representation as the difficulty increased, it gained). The data also shows that in DF season 2, Enhance gained even more of the share when compared to Ret.
So again - if you are choosing to play Enhance now for your +15 or +20 keys…why are players all of a sudden stopping playing Enhance now and other specs are grabbing up that representation? Where are the Enhancement Shamans going now in season 3? Will the trend continue into season 4? Will it continue into TWW? That’s why I want to have a discussion - so that Shaman get the attention they deserve and need.
Ok, and then you need to look at how many Rets are around that io range and how many Enhancement shamans are around that io range. That’s still an example of class disparity and illustrates the issue at hand.
I think I’ve highlighted this four times now, let’s see if you can understand it this time. Shaman isn’t a popular class and never has been. You two not being able to grasp this is comical at this point.
Retribution: 41
Enhancement: 50
I dunno…In DF Season 2 at key levels 25 and up - Enhancement was more popular than Ret.
You can’t fight hard data with name-calling, vitriol, and trolling. That’s not how it works. Can we get back to discussing the actual issue at hand?
more linking of numbers and shallow analysis, do you ever learn?
What do you actually want to hear? Are you upset that not enough people play the spec? Who cares?
Do you understand anything about this game? Do you understand how meta operates and evolves? Do you understand damage profiles and comps? It’s pretty clear that you absolutely don’t but it just boggles my mind that someone with such a lack of understanding can take themselves so seriously on this topic.
EXTREME outlier cherry-picking from a so-called “data scientist”
my god these forums are entertaining
Ok, dig deeper. WHY then? If it had the DPS/Utility/Rotation Fluidity/whatever reasoning you can come up with to explain the disparity to keep up with top or even top performers, then why isn’t the class a “popular class” and “never has been”?
It can’t be class fantasy. The Sorceress in D2 is a fire/frost/lightning class and is one of the most popular classes in the game. It even has an Enchantress fire-melee sort of playstyle it can go with, sort of like Enhancement. So I’m not buying that class fantasy is the reason.
What can the developers do then to make the class more attractive and entice people to play it?
Okay but if you aren’t providing the ‘why’ then you just come off looking like a non constructive jerk. Not everyone on these forums knows everyone’s history or even uses the class discord.
I mean yeah - I’m here to talk with fellow Shamans who want to help the class/specs improve. Not sure, honestly, why I’m being met with such hostility.
I mean many people told me to go back and share older data. So I did. It just so happens to actually prove my original point…that as difficulty goes up, currently, Enhancement (and Elemental) representation goes down.
Let’s just get back on track and discuss why.