Shaman Tanks Karazhan 11/11 World First

Go to the last 5 mins of the video.

Maybe then you can appreciate the Shaman tank.

Do I have to?

The open inventory thing was driving me crazy :frowning:

No. But then you should go edit your previous comment.

Not gonna edit. But I did watch it.

I have never seen a raid cater to allowing 1 person to play in content before.

Iā€™m watching healers empty entire mana pools, with a Shadow Priest in group, just to keep him upā€¦

Iā€™m happy for them that they pulled it off.

But that was awful. All ranged DPS to max damage when you have to run out, 3 healers with a Shadow Priest, and so onā€¦

They do it in a single pull, and between Pain Suppression and raw luck, he never takes back-to-back hits more than once or twice, and never back-to-back-to-back or more. Had he simply not had RNG favor him, heā€™d have been a bloody smear in P2, with or without heroic efforts by his Healers.

He also has to take two attempts at Netherspite. He was taking 10k swings, which means a single Crushing Blow would have flattened him if any landed before the Red Beam went active. Even then, heā€™s so meager on his total Health that he has to stay out of the Red Beam a lot longer lest he end up with sub 15k Health well before the end of the portal phase. On the first pull that he dies on, thatā€™s exactly what happens. Theyā€™re 10+ sec away from portal phase ending and he just gets smashed with about 14k max health, 100-0.

What kills me is that not only is this square-peg-round-hole gameplay, it isnā€™t even GOOD. The guy has improved Ghostwolf for improved kitingā€¦ inside of an indoor dungeon that doesnā€™t allow Ghostwolf. He oddly favors the spell side of his threat kit while desperately trying to maintain Windfury and strictly physical skills. There is no focus. It is justā€¦ ideas tossed together.

If these guys were playing a Druid, Iā€™d have expect them to put an even amount of points into all three trees because ā€œDruids are a jack of all trades, master of none, but can still do everything just fine!ā€

What struck me the most is when I paused the video and asked the question "what is this person doing to help the Shaman tank this.

Hunter = MD + great threat control + high end ranged DPS.
Shadow Priest = Feeding healers massive mana regen which they are dumping out.
2 Paladins = 2 Blessings + Dev in tank group + best tank healing in game.
Mage = Table, AE pull control, great threat control + high end ranged DPS.
Warlock = Imp in tank group + great ranged DPS.
Holy Priest = Imp Fort + Pain Suppresion + big tank heals.
Elemental Shaman = Threat Control when neededā€¦Salv + TA = 40% threat drop, Ranged.

Literally everyone in that group served a purpose to help that Shaman tank a 10 man. The only tank buff missing was Markā€¦because they couldnā€™t fit it in!

I donā€™t see how that is going to translate to a 25 man without the weirdest comp ever, let alone him staying alive against HK, Gruul, or Mag.

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The builds he recommends are also ones that favor more dodge and less shield block or block value abilities which is odd considering shield block chance is one particular value that makes Shaman tanking unique among unconventional tanks. I would think youā€™d want to get items that increase those values, but Largid says to build like a Feral Druid instead.

ā€¦which is more or less impossible.

If you stack the biggest EH items that are ā€œtrueā€ Enhancement oriented, you end up without a shred of Agility but for the three Hunter pieces you can snag (belt/boots/bracers), and a ton of Strength. It helps with the TPS of your physical attacks to be sure, but Frostshock and Lightning Shield take a backseat despite Mental Quickness scaling, and you get zero Avoidance bonuses.

If youā€™re going to try to make Shaman ā€œTankā€ work, you have to actually build up the Shamanā€™s strengths, not borrow themes from other classes that you canā€™t emulate.

You care an awful lot about someone elses fun.

Lol @ this thread still going. Yaā€™ll need some lovinā€™.

Itā€™s feasible for a bit. You can go Clefthoof and gem for Defense and try to get capped. Celfthoof has a decent amount of armor and stamina.

And the only advantage (if you want to call it that) is that Shamans can use shields. Reasons they have Shamans build like Feral Druids is because investing in Parry requires Spirit Weapons which reduces your threat by 30%.

Ultimately the problem still is that Avoidance is still the primary basis for why you can tank at all. Aside from avoidance, the kit is sorely wanting. At least Warriors can activate Shield Block. At least Paladins will passively increase their shield block.

Thatā€™s why I was saying earlier, thereā€™s a couple of ways Shamans could tank if they had been tweaked a bit:

5/5 Toughness gives 10% more Stamina.

Stormstrike increases your chance to block by 50% if holding a shield.

Spirit Weapons decreases threat by 30% if using an OH weapon.
Spirit Weapons increases threat by 30% if using a shield.

Rockbiter Weapon causes additional threat. Rockbiter Weapon Damage is proportional to weapon speed (like how Flametongue Weapon works). Faster weapons get a higher increase. Slower Weapons get a lower increase.

2/2 Guardian Totems causes Stoneskin Totem to reduce damage taken by 10%. Attack Speed is slowed by 10%. Only affects the Shaman.

And Iā€™m not mentioning all this because I think for a second Blizzard is going to change Shamans this way. Iā€™m just listing this all as ways Shamans could become more like how Druids, Warriors, and Paladins are right now.

bis tank is bis

By the way, Caperfin, Iā€™m sorry to say you had a great opportunity to prove something before Phase 2 hit. You had quite a few months of time to do a 2/2 Gruulā€™s and 1/1 Magtheridon run. Never did it. Nobody did.

Nerfs are in now and youā€™ll never get that opportunity again. Ever. You had four months to show every naysayer whatā€™s what but that never happened. 11/11 Karazhan is okay, but that should have been done within the first two months. After that yā€™all should have pushed for a Gruul or Mag kill and a video to follow.

This is the problemā€“I donā€™t think you could. Either the drive isnā€™t there or it just wasnā€™t possible.

:man_shrugging:

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I really canā€™t believe that this topic is still being argued about like this.

I know, right? How dare people talk about this stuff! The utter audacity!

Oh, it makes me sooo mad! :angry:

Then you should have a snickers.

Iā€™m already having one. Plus a Three Musketeers.

Then you solved your anger problem. Cheers.

Heā€™ll become diabetic well before that. Lol

Have you never heard of the ā€œYou are not you when you are angryā€ snickers commercials?