Shaman Tank Feedback

Ok, let me try and make one constructive feedback post on Shaman Tanks before I go back to dooming.

  • Molten Blast is a bad spell. It hits for way too little damage and costs way too much mana. It hitting 10 mobs instead of 4 is irrelevant. We don’t use it for AoE tanking anyway, we have Overcharged and Fire Nova Rune for that.

  • Shield Mastery is a bad rune. We don’t have nearly enough block chance to make it proc and stack reliably on Single Target. You can check P3 logs, we do not run with 5 stacks while being the only tank. It’s only going to get worse if we have tank swaps, because it’s backloaded. We take full damage when we taunt, and by the time we have some stacks, it’s probably going to be time for the other tank to taunt it back.

  • We don’t have a helmet rune. We can either run Mental Dexterity (which just got a nerf) and being forced into the Stormstrike (which hits for no damage when you’re using a single one handed weapon - think back on Classic how many Enh Shamans actually picked that talent), or into half of Burn (because we can’t use Flametongue Weapon for the SP buff).

  • Rockbiter weapon does nothing after the AP nerf. If we had the choice between using it and a mana oil, we’d use the mana oil. It’s literally just a tax we have to pay so we have taunt. It does nothing else.

  • Earth Shock is our taunt, our interrupt, our hardest hitting CD and it has a huge mana cost, all rolled into a spell. To the point where if we’re actively tanking, we don’t have a taunt, because we can’t hold it for interrupts. If we hold it, someone is pulling threat.

  • We got a defensive CD on this phase, in Shamanistic Rage. Too bad we can’t hold it to use it defensively, because we need that mana. I guess there’s the new blue totem coming, but solving base class problems in Totems and Tier Bonuses is just bad design. What’s going to happen once new items come? What if you have bad luck? Is it cool to gate a whole spec behind a drop?

  • Ring runes feel terrible. It’s also very crowded. Splitting it by spell school is very weird, but just for reference, shaman tanks use weapon skill, fire magic and nature magic. There’s also Defense, but that brings me to my next point.

  • Shaman tanks have no buttons to press. Stormstrike deals no damage, we can’t sustain Molten Blast (and it deals no damage either). So we have Earth Shock and Flame Shock. That’s not enough to build threat, so in P3 we found out we have to hardcast spells. Yes, really. We stand in front of the boss, and we cast Lava Burst and Ligthning Bolts. While the boss is hitting us. Just eating the pushback because there’s nothing else to press anyway. Needless to say, that makes all defensive stats but flat HP and armor very bad. We can’t dodge, block or parry while we’re casting.

Literally, the only P4 change of consequence to shaman tanks is the 15% increased threat on Way of Earth. And that’s not a fun change. It has literally zero impact in actual gameplay. It’s a bit like Overcharged back in p3: a passive that worked, but no fun at all.

That’s the feedback on the actual gameplay.

I also want to give some feedback on how it feels to be a Shaman Tank on SOD.

The actual tanking was busted on P1 and P2. We used none of the tanking runes or gear other than Way of the Earth. We were Dual Wield tanking, basically being an Extra DPS in front of the boss. You guys turned that off. It’s also the reason most of the Shaman Tank feedback gets A LOT of flak from the community.

I get you guys turning off the Dual Wielding. It didn’t fit your vision for the class and role (that’s my guess, there was actually zero communicating about it, no Dev opinion on the Patch Notes). But we got nothing back. We spent the whole of P3 waiting for changes that actually addressed the issues. The only changes to actual tanking was a (deserved) nerf to Overcharged.

Now PTR is coming on week 3, and we’re still very much on the same spot. There is a total of 4 changes coming to Shaman Tanking specifically, and they’re very minor or irrelevant. We got no buttons to press, no synergies to use, the jankyness of hardcasting in front of the boss persists.

As for suggestions to actually improve that, it’s hard. They can range for the very hopeful and complex (you can’t get into Shaman Discord and not see people asking for a Shield Bash or imbues on shield sort of suggestion), to the very simple. There are a bunch of topics on this very forum that have very good suggestions.

I’ll leave these, just so it’s not just a ranting post. They also don’t seem to me like very complex, but I’m not a coder, so what do I now:

  1. Make Molten Blast usable. Increase it’s single target damage. Reduce it’s mana cost to trivial (like Lava Lash is). Max rank shocks already cost enough, and it feels VERY bad to be a Shaman tank with no mana. We literally just cast Rank 1 Earth Shocks and hope.

  2. Give us a way to force Shield Mastery stacks. Put it it on Molten Blast or something. That way Shaman Tanks actually get to use the extra armor. We’d also get to stack it up while not tanking before the taunt.

  3. Give us another button to press. One of the ways I can think that would be simpler to do is give us the same treatment you gave to 2h DPS: Make Maelstrom Weapon stack for Shaman tanks. We need more buttons, maybe they can be Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightining.

EDIT to include one last point:
Testwerk is a terrible boss profile to test Shaman Tanking. It hit’s way faster than most every other boss in the game, so it skews Shield Mastery procs. It also makes an already bad thing MUCH MUCH worst: pushbacks on hardcasts. I get that you need some sort of standardized test and it cannot be perfected for every class, but most if not all shaman tank testing there is very close to meaningless.

Ok, now I’m going back to my normal mode of dooming and being very negative and not hopeful for changes to come.

8 Likes

Molten Blast does 25~50 more damage than a fishing pole hit. Increasing WoE threat from 50% to 65% instead of buffing MB is… I don’t know but this can’t go on. The damage is so little.

1 Like

I honestly dont know why they havent changed molten blast yet. Its simple, increase its damage/threat done and decrease its mana cost. We have been asking for this for months now. We dont need it to hit 10 targets, we need it to generate more threat and not cost a ton of mana.

1 Like

You should post on you shammy as 10>5.

Block+dodge+parry now.

Helm rune could use a tweek with burn rune+storm/earth/fire

It makes it so dps are not using tank runes.

Down rank and Flame shock does better dps.

WoE 6% less crit chance …

Same for all is bad? Yeah, terrible.

I sure have a lot of buttons that do things and keep aggro compared to you then.

Wow post on a non shammy non sod toon … can’t even be bothered to act like they play the class.

Very helpful feedback on being wrong and obnoxious. Thank you. Let me go point by point.

  1. Here, a shaman on SoD toon.
  2. That’s a tier bonus. Are we getting it on the mail? We’ll always have it?
  3. 100% agree. Helm runes need tweak for Shaman Tanks. Doesn’t change the fact that Mental Dex just got a nerf, and we only use half of the Burn rune, since we can’t use Flametongue Weapon.
  4. Don’t see how this apply. The logic is DPS used Rockbiter, so it needed a nerf. After the nerf, it’s a spell that doesn’t do anything, just like I said. DPS won’t use because it doesn’t do anything. We’re forced to use it. I guess my question here is: would you use Rockbiter after the nerf if it wasn’t a requirement for WoE?
  5. How does down ranking Earth Shock make it not our interrupt, our taunt and part of the rotation?
  6. I guess you don’t know what CD means?
  7. It’s very much not the same for all. You can find a ton of posts on this very forum of classes complaining the second rune slot is wasted because they don’t have anything to put there.
  8. I guess your spells are not on CD or you’re the special snowflake that doesn’t need to hardcast in front of the boss. Kudos for you

Are you the you disingenuous player spreading false information in the first post?

And that changes what? Are all other classes getting a tier set in the mail?

Ya. Problem with shammy runes is there are some 3 in 1. That is fine EXCEPT these idiots then tried to separate them. 29 runes , and they mess up

[quote=“Batmn-lone-wolf, post:5, topic:1884426”]
How does down ranking Earth Shock make it not our interrupt, our taunt and part of the rotation?
[/quote] Wow I have to explain this: Earth shock not on shock cooldown …Flame shock=best dps. Hard.

What comes along with that rune again? Oh that’s right slipped you mind. YES the best cooldown is the one always up.

No. I have a free rune finger slot from my racial.

1 button macro maces you look bad. This is not hard.

Idk who peed in your cheerios shamkill but none of your criticism is constructive. All of the points the OP made are valid.

How is molten blast not a bad spell?
How is being required to use our T1 set for all eternity not bad design just to get a baseline amount of mana regen that should be baseline?
How does making rockbiter not suck balls for tanks make it impossible to buff in a way that dps wouldn’t use? Greatly increase its threat scaling, add defense stat to rockbiter, or literally anything that isnt tied directly to a dps increase. Add proc chance for shield mastery stacks to rockbiter? How is doing absolutely nothing the correct and best solution for fixing noticeable problems for the spec you supposedly use?
How does only use down ranked spells feel like good and engaging gameplay? How does having earthshock tied to your taunt not impact your capability of offtanking efficiently, because guess what, it does.
How does 6% less crit chance make us not having a defensive cd feel good? That’s just BASELINE tank requirements, its not a cd you can use to clutch a bad engagement or mitigate mechanics. Crit immunity doesn’t save you from mechanics, heal checks, or things like thrash.
Why is it a bad thing to point out that the ring rune system needs work?

You take every point he had and just said, no, you are wrong, instead of providing constructive feedback and solutions to the problem that would be fun and engaging without feedback. If you are truly maining a shaman this phase and you don’t think the way things currently are feels miserable, then you are not maining a shaman. Does it WORK? Yes, poorly, compared to tanks like warrior. Just because it WORKS, doesn’t mean it cant be better. There is a reason we are literally at the VERY bottom of the dps charts and are struggling to hold threat in many cases. You are by far the least constructive person I have had the misfortune of seeing on this forum and If I didn’t know better I would assume you were playing a paladin with how hostile you are on this thread. Good lord man.

Also, I find it hilarious that the person who is criticizing the OP for not being a shaman main isnt even level cap. Actual clown.

1 Like

WTF. Are you 12? I’m not even going to respond to what you have due to it isn’t worth my time to format. Random statements shoved together and you want me to take you serious?

Statement that are made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Look closer at the image. I have the incursion set equipped.

The clown here isn’t me.

Sure man. You didnt take the time to actually provide reasons for your statements, and you call MY reply statements shoved together. You dont provide any evidence and expect others to do the same. And when I point out your flawed criticisms you just say “what are you 12?” to try to avoid any points I had.

You are simply a malcontent who just likes to complain without offering suggestions. I’ve looked at your posts and all you do is whine and tear down other peoples ideas without offering any improvements. Why are you even on the forums if you arent going to offer ideas to improve things.