Shaman dps in M+?

[Lollocklol-proudmoore]

This feels awful, and people are just smack talking me for “not doing enough dps” even though I’ve got 4set and I’m doing everything right(I think), but people are still smashing my numbers, except when I get a proc of 2 set, then it’s GG. But it doesn’t seem to proc often enough to compensate, because at the end of the dungeon I’m still 1.5-2mil dps lower than the other 2 dps.

The 2pc being 9 awakening storms seems horrendous. Please revert back to 6. Outside of insanely massive pulls you lust on, it’s just “hey maybe you’ll get enough procs to do competitive dmg, who knows?!”

[Lemonshark-dalaran]

from what im seeing ele shaman is middle of the pack not horrible but not meta. it 100% isnt as doom and gloom as you are making it seem.

edit: you even topped an 11 gambit on monday

[Movíngtarget-kelthuzad]

In m+ I find enhance dmg okay. Its not crazy but its not on the lower end. I usually finish between 6-7m with very suboptimal trinkets dependent on dungeon. Single target is what really causes problems right now. Outside of ascendance we hit like a wet noodle. while some other classes/specs play as if they are in perma ascendance.

Movíngtarget - Character - WoW

So you know the gear since I am EU player.

Only M+ issue is having to play around the 2p bonus.

[Dockmaster-elune]

What spec are you playing, Ele or Enh? The 2p feels AWFUL as Elemental, it rotates awakening storm charges so much slower than Enh does.

I feel pretty bad about my Ele gameplay, and my gear is only680il, but I still manage to get 4.2-4.8 overalls and that feels perfectly fine for the level of content I do(very low keys). The slow Gathering Storm charges and the 2p tilt me though, extremely annoying at times.

I like Enh a lot more, and I do more damage as Enh, on top of that Gathering Storms is less annoying and I get to strafe around constantly like an ape.

[Lemonshark-dalaran]

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

I just had a ret pally in a M+, with 4 less ilvl do 7.11mil overall dps, to my 4.32mil overall dps. But they totally needed that flat 5% damage buff, right? Do we have to throw a temper tantrum and shut down the shaman discord to get some kind of f**king increase or change, too?

ok i can go on and on about the amount of keys ive seen the shammy in my group top but the data is what i follow. its doing fine compared to other classes. its not meta but its not doing horrible either.

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

Our 2pc takes FOREVER to proc, and our 4pc is literally dog it’s 3% nature damage compared to ret 4pc making hammer of light crit for 16mil? Tempest is supposed to be my “hard hitting” ability and I’m getting ~5mil crits with it. Like… “oh boy! my overload hits for 1.3mil 1-2 more times! for a total of 6-8mil in total damage on a casted ability, compared to an instant cast melee ability that is up more often than it? Yippe!” - Am I supposed to be encouraged to play with this?

this is a personal problem

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

The season 2 tier is literally stronger than our season 3 tier. It would be more beneficial to wear it, if it scaled to same ilvl. The ONLY reason we’re wearing season 3 tier is because it has more intellect.

so season is not better then ok

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

That’s wet noodle damage. No matter what way you splice it, its wet noodle damage.

and yet its in the middle of the pack damage wise for keys and doing great in raid.

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

Me doing a 11 gambit means nothing. Just because my group actually knows wtf to do, doesn’t mean Ele isn’t in a pathetic state.

so you topping dps in a key where you just admited your teammates knew what they were doing means that your damage is competitive.

[Lollocklol-proudmoore]

@Lemonshark-dalaran

ok i can go on and on about the amount of keys ive seen the shammy in my group top but the data is what i follow. its doing fine compared to other classes. its not meta but its not doing horrible either.

What data? The people who play this game for a living? I didn’t ask for meta, I asked to not get talked to me literally every single key because “hurrrr your damage is low” - even though it’s completely reliant on horrible proc rates.

@Lemonshark-dalaran

this is a personal problem

It’s not. It’s hard coded RNG into the game. Pretending bad RNG is a personal problem is pathetic.

@Lemonshark-dalaran

so season is not better then ok

I said stronger, not better. (Redditbrain.exe has encountered an error)

@Lemonshark-dalaran

and yet its in the middle of the pack damage wise for keys and doing great in raid.

Cool.

@Lemonshark-dalaran

so you topping dps in a key where you just admited your teammates knew what they were doing means that your damage is competitive.

I didn’t top the dps for that key, I was dead last. I did 4.9mil overall, the other 2 dps did 6.6mil and 6.1mil overall. Or, 26% and 20% less.

We all had 4pc. They were competitive with each other. I was not.

I literally can’t take you seriously. I’m blocking you and hope you enjoy trolling the forums, its sad and pathetic.

[Lemonshark-dalaran]

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

I asked to not get talked to me literally every single key because “hurrrr your damage is low”

this is a personal problem not a class issue.

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

What data? The people who play this game for a living?

no its called looking at the class and comparing it to others playing at the same level.

not according ot the log im seeing.

@Lollocklol-proudmoore

I literally can’t take you seriously. I’m blocking you and hope you enjoy trolling the forums, its sad and pathetic.

so me pointing out that maybe you playing at a 40 parse for damage in your class shows that no you are not playing it to its fullest potential.

[Swayertotem-barthilas]

Good enh players just reroll to ele and other specs because enh’s playstyle is degenerate. Totemic is full of garbage since PTR. Enh have to auto attack because they are fearing to procs the 2p bonus in M+ when the packs are dying or the boss goes phase. Ele shaman playstyle is much better than enh playstyle and enh players reroll to ele shaman or specs with good playstyle like FDK.

[Seaofsorrow-aegwynn]

Couple of caveats here:

-I’ve only played Ele this season so far, so my comments are more directed towards that and towards the people complaining about Ele here

-I’ve only cleared +9 max so far

Having said that, Ele is more than competitive when you’re using the right build and doing the rotation correctly. I carry my weight just fine. I also have a good friend who is admittedly more experienced than myself and he is running even higher keys and doing just fine.

We don’t set the world on fire (no pun intended), but we can absolutely carry our weight.

I don’t even parse that well. I don’t actively log, but in runs that have been logged by others, my highest parse by ilvl is only a 76 and my average across existing logs is like 50%. Which tells me that even with as decently as I’m doing in a vacuum, the ceiling is much, much higher and plenty of Eles are obliterating stuff.

I should also note that many of those runs were early on when I had NO tier at ALL. I got rid of my S2 tier early and only recently got my 2P. So if I’m still doing well enough to not get flamed…yea.

I will say that I have seen a lot of really, really bad Eles in keys lately. But it’s the player/build/rotation, not the spec. I’ve seen so many Eles trying to run the post-4p build with no tier or with S2 tier, or with way too little haste/Mast, and doing tank level damage. People are out here just copying the top talent builds without understanding why they work the way they do.

Tl;dr: To the Ele’s here…I’m struggling to parse well and I’m still holding my own dps-wise at face value (and my buddy absolutely demolishes as Ele), so if you’re doing worse than that, that’s 100% on you.

Might buy a couple cheap weaps and see where Enh is at these days to see if it’s really as bad as people claim, lol.

Edit: Just spent some time on the target dummies, and even with cheap AH weaps (each 50 ilvls below my Ele’s weap/shield) and not having played Enh in forever, it’s only about 20% behind my Ele in pure DPS. Fwiw. on equal ground they’re probably about the same.

There’s also literally almost 2k Enh shamans in NA alone that already have 2500 or greater IO, so…

I will say that parts of the current the Enh rotation are still kinda irksome, though. (I really dislike Primordial Storm, Voltaic Blaze, and Ice Strike.) But inconvenience/preference is not the same as “unable to do good dps”.

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Swayertotem-barthilas

Good enh players just reroll to ele and other specs because enh’s playstyle is degenerate. Totemic is full of garbage since PTR. Enh have to auto attack because they are fearing to procs the 2p bonus in M+ when the packs are dying or the boss goes phase. Ele shaman playstyle is much better than enh playstyle and enh players reroll to ele shaman or specs with good playstyle like FDK.

I’ve just been playing it in delves and feels weak compared to other specs. Demo lock I can faceroll most solo content but enhance I’m just always dead

[Vofu-area-52]

Ele Shaman is middle of the pack in m+ and an absolute monster in raids. If you are grouped with DPS that perform better than you then it is what it is. Shamans bring so much utility to the table in m+ with one of the best interrupts in the game, a group buff, bloodlust, an aoe stun, snare, root, knock-up; you also have poison dispel, fear dispel, purge dispel. You bring so much.

In a key right now, the spread between Ele shaman and top dps is slightly less than 10%. The spread between Ele shaman and Enh shaman is less than 2%.

We are in a good spot.

[Kaoboi-area-52]

Tuning is kind of up in the air still, since so few people have anything resembling bis, but ele as middling is probably accurate.

The problem is how *$$ ele is to actually play in keys—and enh is even worse. So much of your damage is tied to ascendance, that these stupid rng ascendance procs dominate your performance. Yes, you can play around both of them (though dre is closer to pure gambling…)

But playing around these giga powerful procs means literally not playing the game. Don’t press lightning abilities, or maelstrom spenders towards the end of a pull, because if you proc your only real damage on the 2 surviving targets, you will probably do tank damage in the next pull.

It is egregiously bad, should never have made it through testing, and I would prefer almost any other iteration of ele than this degenerate gambling/inting.

And even with this awful gameplay, even with the crude debuff juggling of lightning rod, you have no niche. No giga aoe, no giga funnel, mid asf single target… the only redeeming value is chain lightning overloads tickling the monkey brain

[Swayertotem-barthilas]

Ele is fine in M+, you can play either Farseer and SB. DRE is gambling for ele but ele have fairly high uptime of asc. However, enh is 100% degenerate playstyle and you have to track the tier set so you don’t procs when the packs are dying aka auto attacking on dying mobs.

[Vofu-area-52]

Agreed with the Stormbringer sentiment. It feels really bad when the proc is wasted, so much so that it leads to you being super cautious about proccing it. Honestly it feels like Fire Mage wasting a combustion. At this point I hope they just buff the other hero talents for Ele and Enh so that we have another viable choice to play with.

Enhancement Totemic does show some promise on huge pulls because it has access to some uncapped aoe via imbuement mastery, and sundering.

[Simplejakk-deathwing]

Sundering is capped at 20 targets but it’s pretty rare to go beyond 20 so it feels uncapped.

[Visarch-darkspear (Visarch)]

?

Elemental is fully s tier

[Eona-borean-tundra]

Shaman defensives are very weak in general, demo pets are super tankly and demo just does good damage all the time. They aren’t reliant on offensive cds like we are.