Legendary chest legion keys are pretty comparable to having iris in BFA.
The problem shadow has is it’s very easy to be catastrophically bad in keys for one reason or another, and even if you are good you’re still not capable of the sorts of things top m+ specs are when they are played well. Everyone has had a bad M+ experience with a shadow priest being unable to pull their weight, while other specs even played poorly are often serviceable, and other notoriously bad m+ specs (Affli, enhance, balance) either offer pretty valuable utility or are still better played badly than shadow, as well as having another stronger DPS option.
Even if you take away voidform, replace it with orbs, and give us devo plague it changes NOTHING about M+ for the spec.
You still have garbage damage on enemies. You’re slow to apply dots on more than 3 targets. You lack a good way to roll those dots because now voidbolt is gone. Shackle Undead is still unuseable in 90% of content. Mind Control still requires you to stop doing anything during the duration of the effect, a choice no other class has to make with their CC effects, you don’t offer other good cc options, etc etc etc.
Shadow fails at M+ at a class level outside voidform to begin with, and that has never been addressed. And those issues only become more noticeable with classes like DH just offering everything. You also CAN’T spam heals because the mana pool allows for about 3 shadow mends before you are entirely oom. Like, these are issues that STILL exist outside voidform.
It just feels like voidform is the issue because you can’t choose to use these things while maintaining your hyper uptime on form, but even if that wasn’t a problem using these spells still sucks on ice too.
I am not saying return to WoD and put a pin in it. I am saying that it works as a spec mechanic. Meaning it has flexibility to grow and become something more. It it not stuck in a form that scales to high or is so low that it scales to be decent but until that point you are crap even when played perfectly because it’s not about your skill as a player, its about how utter inflexible Void Form / Insanity is as a mechanic.
Garbage damage on enemies? What are you talking about? How can you even make such a statement? What do you think they will just scale the damage along with the Shadow Orb mechanic back then? This is just an ignorant statement. Trust in the fact that blizzard is fully capable of tweaking numbers. I’ve seen them do it lol.
You don’t need to roll dots, it played just fine then without the need for that. I mean they could add in an ability to do so and even spread dots. Again, this is an ignorant statement because this can just be a feature via baseline or talent if they choose.
Wow, so your answer to us being unable to provide good CC is to just say nah, don’t need to CC, just tunnel damage. Riveting response and uninspiring.
Shadowlands - Realm of the afterlife / dead. Shackle… yup, no reason this will be needed.
Sounds like you dont know whats going on in the next iteration of the game.
Sounds like you never used Mind Control in fun and interesting ways. Maybe MC a mob that you can blow its CD’s with in order to kill faster, or put buffs on allies etc. MC has a place. The only difference is that you can pick up where you left off after the MC ended with Shadow Orbs as that resource doesnt fall off while in combat, but Void Form / Insanity does.
Yup, and you think that will be fixed with how Alpha is shaping up currently? Yea I thought so. Give Shadow Orbs a shot because that can be balanced, Void Form / Insanity can not as most of us have already detailed out as to why.
Yup, its funny that you cant heal much when you can heal on the fly as a non healer spec without any cost aside from damage loss.
Its a numbers thing for one which again can be adjusted.
Also, with having the need to drop Shadow Form and heal with Holy spells, you play with the kiss/curse choice. Meaning you loose out on defense and offense in order to become a support for a short while. Doing this will net you an increase in the amount you will be able to heal and do the supportive role. You don’t have that defense / offense tax with Shadow Mend and that is why it is so weak.
Sounds like you rather just tunnel the mob / boss without taking advantage of what makes a priest a priest throughout the entire history of wow by utilizing our utility in a supportive manner.
As you mentioned to myself and others before, maybe shadow is not for YOU. Because it sure sounds like you don’t give a toss about anything but tunneling and damage and you know what, that’s the issue with shadow in its current form, you are forced to play that way as that’s the only thing you can do. Stepping outside of that mindset nets your entire spec coming to a halt and crashing and end up not rewarding.
You really sound like you only played Void Form era of shadow. Or you never played shadow as it was meant to be played pre Legion.
“Garbage damage on enemies? What are you talking about? How can you even make such a statement? What do you think they will just scale the damage along with the Shadow Orb mechanic back then? This is just an ignorant statement. Trust in the fact that blizzard is fully capable of tweaking numbers. I’ve seen them do it lol.”
Mind Sear has been utter trash for a very long time. They are entirely capable of fixing Shadow’s damage on aoe for a long time and never did. You suddenly have faith that now they are able to make that change?
“Sounds like you never used Mind Control in fun and interesting ways. Maybe MC a mob that you can blow its CD’s with in order to kill faster, or put buffs on allies etc. MC has a place.”
I played in vanilla and TBC when this actually WAS a reasonable point to make. I currently play Classic. I also play retail. You know when the last time an enemy had a legitimate ability worth using Mind Control was?
You keep acting like they can just magically fix Shadow’s healing and other major issues, when they HAVEN’T for a very long time. Things that don’t have anything to do with Voidform. Things that were broken all on their own and things they can fix without being afraid that it will break the game with void form.
But whatever. All you seem to do is just make assumptions that they can just fix those numbers issues that they have NEVER BOTHERED TO DO EVER. And say “I don’t believe things.”
You refuse to have an actual conversation about the situation and are extremely hostile. So I won’t be responding to you further. We can just both have differing opinions and move on.
Your also the one that sees the issues with current Shadow Priest and seem to think it had NOTHING to do with Void Form. Yet these problems DID NOT exist in WoD.
Everything worked and i do mean EVERYTHING.
It all got screwed up when you guessed it… Void Form became a thing.
That is when the train went off the rails.
Keep sticking your head in the sand if you like. Because your arguments is all about numbers now. Numbers that only became crap once they had to balance things around Void Form.
OOH! I can answer that one. The Vortex Pinnacle, bank in Cataclysm! Not only was there a badass healer that you could take over (and heal the party with, so you weren’t gimping the party by using it), at once point you could actually make them suicide by jumping them over the edge! They of course nerfed that part by having them respawn.
Edit: Blast furnace was definitely a gimmick fight. You brought the shaman for Bloodlust for every fight, but you brought the priest for Blast Furnace, because it was required by fight mechanics.
It’s actually mechagon workshop, you can MC the one that summon squirrels and basically 1 shot the trash, but it’s super fiddly and not reason enough to bring a priest. Still fun to do though
replying to keep this post going. Don’t stop you guys keep expressing how you feel about the spec.
Apperanlty all major changes for classes are in already. what do you guys think? Do you think the devs are actually listening to the community and taking another look at the spec or nothing will change except more borrowed power that’s required for the spec to function?
We’ve all been through this before. Void Form is here to stay, they’ve been on their bs with this spec since Legion.
The devs came up with the idea and they want to it stay, no matter how many beg and plead otherwise. They like the class fantasy of void form and think spells like surrender to madness are “cool”, which is why they refuse to get rid of it.
It’s that simple.
Other points that support my claims:
We killed Nzoth this patch. Alleria still says that it doesn’t matter, she can still hear the whispers of the old gods or whatever. When I heard this line I knew Void form was staying for Shadowlands. They are obsessed with the old god class fantasy for some reason. They think anything to do with the concept of “void” is cool, even creating a new race out of nowhere called the void elves just to elaborate on how cool quirky and mysterious it is.
We actually used to have a dev that communicated with us in the BfA alpha, I forget his name but it looks like he doesn’t even work for the team anymore.
Holinka also told us not to except any major class changes at Blizzcon. So despite the reworks for Shadow that were hinted at, nothing is really changing.
I’ve been prepping to main shadow priest for Shadowlands and I gotta say… Voidform is awesome.
Can it get some tweaks to make it better? Yeah absolutely. But I am firmly in the keep it crowd.
Here’s my Pain Points:
Void Bolt clipping your other skills. I’m not sure if that’s as simple as take it off the GCD, or let it be castable while channeling Mind Flay, but there’s some goofy interactions and pauses in playing around it.
…
Tier 6 talents don’t feel like a choice. Lingering Insanity may not always be the best, but I can’t imagine a world where I prefer the other talents over reducing reliance on the Voidform window.
…
Void Eruption damage is too high in AoE. I get that it’s needed because of DoT cleave being a bit weak after DoT nerfs in WoD. On fights less than 10 seconds, there’s nothing in the kit to make you feel useful except for blowing a big brain buster all over the place… but it’d be nice to see a lot of that AoE damage brought back into the rotation. I think for single-target, the damage feels right for a spender. But, to rephrase the pain point, the rest of the AoE kit feels lacking and probably because of the overly strong activation.
I know a lot of people may not agree with these, but again… these are my pain points. Unique and I’m sure they’ll adjust and mature as my experience grows.
Good luck everyone and I’ll see you beyond the breach!
I don’t mind the whole “worshiping the old gods” or “Void Priest” theme/concept (I kind of like actually worshiping the old gods)
However, Theme/concept of the class shouldn’t define and hinder its mechanic. class fantasy and spec mechanic are separate. they could easily bring back orbs and call them void particles or void orbs.
you can dress any mechanic to fit a theme or concept. If they are willing to do the work.
I mind it tbh. The tentacles bother me. I’m a shadow priest, not a sea creature. But that’s what happens when your class fantasy is about the void.
At the very least if they truly do like this Void direction that they‘ve taken the spec in, they could’ve done something for priests in 8.3 story wise or flavor wise. Like, since we’re all old god cultists now apparently. But they did nothing. Obviously no gameplay advantage should be given. But a nod to spriests, some cool flavor, anything.
Furthermore, it’s pretty dumb to do this to a class that only has one DPS spec.
On live there are no goofy interactions or pauses. 2 GCDs of casting between void bolt up until 147% haste, at which point it shifts to one.
You will clip mind flay half way very often, but as mind flay ticks twice per GCD, on the GCD, you lose no damage or time in doing so. There is no inherent value in finishing a mind flay cast, so you shouldn’t feel anything for losing it.
As far as the two comments you made, moving Void Bolt off the GCD essentially removes it from the rotation. It didn’t gain any value or nuance by removing it from the GCD, you just shoved it to one side as a quality of life fix, same with the castable during mind flay thing. In fact, that second one causes a lot more problems for the spec than it attempts to solve.
Unfortunately I don’t know what to prep, because I’m not playing the voidform mechanics introduced in legion for another expansion. I also cannot imagine any world in which SL shadow as it is now, is actually “good” at anything without just being flat overtuned. Shadow has never succeeded because of Voidform, it has only succeeded in spite of that, and on the third time through the ringer, I’d suspect bliz are going to be even more scared of giving the spec a chance to get out of hand than they ever have been.
I know a lot of people hate the tentacles. they could’ve added a damn glyph but they are to busy making 6 more glyphs of different color water elemental.
I absolutely agree with you. classes with one dps specs need to always have more attention paid to them and how the community is receiving them.