Hi! I am an avid pvper, not the best, but I do enjoy my casual arena climbs and bgs. Recently, I have seen that there have been some worrisome things about pvp gearing in Shadowlands. BGs, (imo) are some of the funnest ways to gear, yet I have seen that the changes to the pvp vendor are REALLY really bad.
After checking out a video from Stoopz, I have learned that not only is high end pvp gear, is very low in item level, (I believe it was equivalent to mythic 6 gear) and time gated behind the renoune system. To make a long story short, it would be better to grind out pve, such as raids and m+ rather than grind out bgs for 80 hours, and then have to wait 7weeks to just get your gear upgraded to IL 197. It doesn’t make much sense to me. I was really hoping that pvpers could just stick with pvp as an end content, and grind and gear up in that manner.
By the time your grind is over, trying to collect 7 weeks of rep, and 80 hours of bgs, not only will the new raid be out, but also, people will already start pushing m15s and mythic raiding. I believe there should be some change here. Like Stoopz said in his video, even halfing the time it takes would be an excellent idea. I also believe upgrading pvp items should be upgraded through pvp. Mayhaps conquest again? Or maybe at least make the gear worth while. Set the gear at mythic 10 IL. But right now, it seems the pvp vendor for gear and whatnot, is kinda useless. What do you guys think? I’ll leave a link to his video here so you all can check it out for yourselves and give your opinion.
18 Likes
Blizzard is way overconfident in their ability to balance things. That goes for classes, abilities, covenants, and in this case PVE versus PVP gearing.
They refused to utilize a PVP-only stat, and instead doubled down on “same gear for everyone”. The problem is that then requires them to balance not only the gear ilvl, but also the acquisition rate between unrated, rated, the different ratings within rated, and all PVE content (normal,heroic,mythic+, raids etc). For them to achieve good balance there is just not realistic. It isn’t within Blizzard’s abilities and history has shown that.
5 Likes
it is impossible to reconcile the two systems without major conflicts requiring one system to suffer greatly
pvp profits from a very solid easily acquired baseline gear set for pvp and pretty much requires a BIS pvp set to be achievable by everyone on about the same pace with a pretty narrow power gap between the baseline and the BIS. This provides the best player experience by far. You get a fun gear progression and fairness all tied into one.
pve profits from an almost never ending gear/power grind to keep beating harder scripted content and a LOT of the dopamine comes from showing off the better more powerful gear and ability to beat tougher scripted content.
these two systems do not reconcile whatsoever - either scaling must be added or pvp/pve specific stats to create a separation so that they no longer conflict very much. Effectively two completely separate gearing paths with their own benefits for their own separate activities.
1 Like
I understand why the upgrade system is now going to be tied to the renown system with time gating so that PvP gear will not be the easiest possible way for PvE players to gear. We do not want to force PvE players to do PvP for the best possible gearing because that is what will happen. On the flip side we should not force PvP players to do PvE for the best possible way for gearing for PvP.
PvP players want to do PvP in order to gain the best possible gear progression for PvP.
PvP earned gear should be the best gear for PvP (except for maybe 1-2 pieces which is fine). Of course, the Honor gear will never be the best end game gear but it should still be relative to the gearing process for end game Arena as PvE dungeon and M+ gearing will be for end game raiding/M+.
The time gating renown system should NOT be applied to the PvP gear upgrades but to the time gating of that PvP gear to be used in PvE.
Allow us to gear in PvP that is on par with how a PvE player would gear for PvE. Make it so that the gear earned from Honor vendors and the upgrades will not work in PvE fully until the renown ranks have been earned. This way PvP players can earn their PvP gear and use that gear in PvP and be relevant in PvP. We should not have PvP gearing be under par than PvE gearing. Both PvE and PvP gearing should take close to the same amount of time for their respective gameplay. We want some overlap which is fine but have the PvP gear time gated in working in PvE rather than making the PvP upgrades take so long that no one will even bother with the honor vendor.
How this could happen is that when I upgrade my PvP gear for doing battlegrounds/RBG/arena/warmode the levels of my upgrades are reflected when doing that content. When I step into an instanced PvE scenario or (non warmode) those upgraded levels are then reverted back to the level of which the renown system does not allow. Therefore my PvP gear is not the potentially best gear for that given scenario in PvE but I can still use that gear to achieve my goals in that instanced PvE if I wish to do so with my PvP gear.
This will still allow for cross gameplay with PvP and PvE gear and allow both types of gameplay to have different avenues for gearing for their respective type of game play.
5 Likes
Players (or I supposed especially Blizzard themselves) need to realize the primary source of the problem, which is Ion’s mantra of “let gear be gear.”
As long as “let gear be gear” is a driving philosophy, PvP gearing will be gutter trash. The words sound nice, but then when you analyze what they mean, it’s really bad for PvP.
PvP gear needs a separate higher item level in PvP in order to make it competitive with PvE gear in PvP. “Let gear be gear” means that they don’t want any separation in item level or special stats based on source. We don’t need rating locked ilvl conquest gearing or vendors that give sub-par gear with a laughably long grind. We need conquest gear that baseline (or upgraded) is at least on-par with mythic raiding gear in PvP (but not in PvE).
MoP and WoD were the best versions of PvP gearing in the game. Blizzard needs to stop trying to re-invent the wheel and just go back to what worked.
6 Likes
This is precisely the reason PVP gear needs to be separated with PVP stat or ilvl boost.
4 Likes
Just remove the time gating and let players play the game how they want it. You want to gear up in mythic +'s for pvp gear fine, but have players that want to grind honor not be punished. Have ranks that go up to +14’s just raise the honor requirement.
I’m sorry but doing mythic 14’s isn’t that hard, once you learn the dungeon its easy, why because the boss fights are the exact same (besides the affixs). I would rather grind bg’s if I could get the same ilvl as doing mythic’s.
I do have running either or but this is a mmorpg reward the players that want to grind there little hearts out and play the game the way they want.
Or I could be wrong and it could just be me.
3 Likes
I couldn’t say it better myself, nor could I agree more.
1 Like
you are not wrong at all. Players who want to grind pvp gear should be able too.
4 Likes
Yep, it is pretty absurd that people who spend time in m+ have a HUGE advantage over PvPers who spend time doing PvP content.
5 Likes
PvP in Shadowlands will be a side game for mythic raiders and nothing more.
2 Likes
