Shadowlands: Love it Or Hate It

A. Covenents when Shadowlands first came out felt far too restrictive. The wow community has a tendency to exclude people that do not pick the “correct” options for raiding, m+, and pvp. If you didn’t have the right covenant for your activity which could be different for each activity depending on your class then you didn’t get invited and there was no easy way to switch. This essentially restricted characters to partake in one of those chosen activities. Some people even started making two of the same class during this time.

B. The shadows story ret conned too much old lore for its own benefit instead of actually attempting to be new and unique off its own merits. It made things like the Lich King feel cheapened so to speak.

C. Raid mechanics were the most difficult they had ever been by the time it’s .1 patch released the second raid and even worse in .2. To most players the game was becoming the most exclusionary version of itself.

D. This was around the time the lawsuits around S. Harassment which was a slap in the face after years of Blizzard pandering. They further altered the game for the sake of making a shallow statement to the fanbase that didn’t necessarily address anything. Classic, we messed up so we are going to punish you nonsense. Maybe not directly tied to Shadowlands but this did happen while it was live.

E. Blizzard didn’t listen to the community. Most of the issues with shadowlands could have been avoided before it went live. People played the beta and later PTRs and warned them about the covenants and later about other various issues. Blizzard was far too bloated and slow to react to anything.

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The theme was great but they didn’t manage to pull it off right. Everything was time gated and at certain points it felt like a second job. For two years we were told about the greatest strategist and plan plotter out there - the Jailer, only to kill it and end up with 0 clues what was his point. It felt like the xpac didn’t happen at all from a story perspective.

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hated it.

Covenants were awful and shouldnt have had player powers of such magnitude tied to them. Covenants should have been story/cosmetic only.

Traversing the maw for renown weeklies was miserable.

Chorethia and Zereth Mortis were really lame.

Fated season and losing a new raid tier/zone/story content felt bad.

Far too many retcons that frankly make portions of past lore make little sense.

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He clearly saw the Void invasion that we’re going to be spending three expansions dealing with coming.

His plan to deal with it was “Use Azeroth’s worldsoul to spread domination magic throughout reality so that I have the entire cosmos under my command to fight it when it comes.”

Everyone else disagreed and said so. Loudly.

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Shadowlands was so good it made me quit and go play Final Fantasy 14.

Shadowlands covenants were terrible. The extra work to switch constantly was effing stupid.

The dungeon designs were all bad i hated every single one. This current season of m+ is insufferable because it includes content from the two worst expansions they’ve ever made: Shadowlands and BfA.

The lore was effing terrible. I don’t mind the afterlife being exposed, but the lore, writing, and story was effing garbage. The voice acting was terrible as always

Zone design was super boring and a let down.

To make it all worse, Ion Hazzikostas was a smarmy little p.o.s. about it all too. Refused to admit anything was wrong with the game. Said there was “no ripcord to pull.” About fixing the crap every single person wanted.

Torghast was literally hell to do. Worst crap ever.

Except suddenly there was whenever Shadowlands (among other things) made ppl quit the game en masse to go play FF14.

Shadowlands turned me into a WoW refugee in FF14. Made me realize FF14 is the better MMO. Only not playing it from the emotional burnout Endwalker caused me. Best MMO ever, despite the issues it has.

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Visuals its top tier (like every wow expansion) story-wise, not so much.

Like Legion, it had some major expansion ruining features, some of which, unlike Legion, couldn’t be fixed by just upping currency or adjusting a player power feature like gear.

The biggest complaint even with everything raining anima and renown now and being able to speed through covenant campaigns is: 1. everything is still a bit on the expensive side unlocking covenant features wise and 2. The unholy long travel time between zones if you don’t have a wormhole. Also no AH and whatnot unless an engineer.

Basically they made a GRIND expansion at the worst time to do so. Also the story was all kinds of borked for the main storyline, Zovaal had all the qualifications of molded bread to be a master plot manipulator. Denathrius, who was meant to not even survive a zone campaign, had more actual credential to that claim than he did.

If all you did to improve the story, was swap Zovaal and Denathrius’ placements… it would almost 100% solve every possible plot hole in SL. And it’s not even too late to do so, SL could get a followup expansion like MoP got with Wod, only this time with Denathrius as the plot devising villain. Make it where Zovaal was just a massive red herring so Denathrius could take ANOTHER Arbiter off line and take their power unopposed.

It wouldn’t even be a retcon, because events still happened as they did, it’d just be adding MORE context to how and why they transpired as such.

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I’ve encountered the relevant part of the story in Warcraft III, WotLk, and a variety of other sources.
SL wanted to rewrite what I’d read and experienced. It altered a story already told.
It made changes retroactvly. Because of that, I call it a retcon.
You refer to it as a revelation.

When determining whether it is a retcon or a revelation, we must consider the historical timeline as well as the author’s intention, as this is the most significant difference.
It helps discern whether the change was meant to add depth or rewrite prior events.

What you’re suggesting is that you deliberately blind yourself.

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I did not play it either. With doing old content I really liked the look and the feel of it but also understand how bad it probably was to start when it released. I cannot imagine what the grind would have been pre major patches. I mean, it was quite annoying grinding it as old content. It must have been painful as new content.

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Well I would say, go play it. Cap your XP so you never are forced to leave. Then come back.

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You consider the historical timeline if something that was established has changed. Most of the things people list are not changes, they are just revelations that people don’t like.

One example, Sire Denathrius being behind the Dreadlords. According to the lore they just appeared in the twisting neither. So now we learn they appeared there because Sire Denathrius sent them there. That’s NOT a retcon, it’s an expansion of the story. One that people don’t like but an expansion none the less.

And I disagree completely with the idea that it has anything to do with changing intentions by the author. If the author hasn’t published it yet, it is not part of the lore. It’s just an idea the author is kicking around.

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Because blizzard was reluctant to make the necessary changes in time.
Like the decoupling the covenant choice from the borrowed power they gave or making torghast actually optional so that ppl who disliked it would not had to grind it on multiple characters to get their leggos.

A lots of bad decisions and their consequences.
And it was during covid + the lawsuit fiasco which meant constant content draughts during s1 and s2

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I played very little of sl…there were too many forced play directions. Admittedly I didn’t play much of it but from what I remember pretty.much everytime I logged in in was met with (you absolutely have to go do this to enjoy it) having to travel back and forth to that little cave what seemed like every time I completed anything at all just had me log out and I never wanted to do any of that stuff.

I liked Shadowlands a lot too, but the expansion is very much a “you had to be there” scenario, because the Shadowlands you’re able to play now is a post-9.1.5 Shadowlands. Yeah, the story is lackluster (even by WoW standards) but the things people hated the most about Shadowlands were gameplay-related.

Shadowlands prior to Patch 9.1.5 is defined by how many arbitrary restrictions Blizzard could slap onto any given expansion feature. Covenants as you experience them now are just four different stories you can freely swap between and a ton of cosmetics tied to each, but Covenants as they existed for much of Shadowlands were a player power choice first and a cosmetic choice second. Blizzard wanted it to be a “meaningful choice,” but players rightfully called this out as a failure as early as the Alpha and it failed unlike anything the world had ever seen.

You could want to be a Necrolord Boomkin, but being a Necrolord Boomkin made you useless while being a Night Fae (and later Venthyr) Boomkin made you an incredibly powerful spec. But Venthyr sucked for Feral and Resto. You had to basically kill off multiple of your specs to play the one you really wanted to play.

And back then, you needed to wait TWO WEEKS to swap your Covenant. Now you can do it instantly.

This was amplified further by Soulbinds and Conduits. Now Soulbinds are just some neat little thing you don’t really engage with, but in current-content SL they were a massive source of player power and much of that power came from spec-specific Conduits. But if you wanted to swap out, say, your Fire Conduits for your Frost Conduits for one of your Soulbinds you had to use up some Conduit Energy (which no longer exists) to add new Conduits to that Soulbind tree, and you only got Conduit Energy slowly over the course of multiple days. So the game punished you not only for wanting to play multiple specs that used different Covenants but also for wanting to play multiple specs that used the same Covenant and Soulbind.

And then Torghast, the now cosmetic-only Roguelike mode that seemed very promising during Alpha, was another massive problem. Torghast would’ve been cool as a cosmetic-only thing, but Blizzard decided to lock Soul Ash and Soul Cinders (currencies that you needed to craft your very strong, but very expensive, Legendaries) behind completing high Torghast layers. And you could only farm a finite amount of Soul Ash/Cinders per week. And if you didn’t get your currency for the week, there was no catchup. And many of the legendary powers were locked behind specific Torghast wings. And back then, only two Torghast wings, at random, would be available to run per week. And there was a time where Torghast was much, much harder which frustrated tons of players.

And then there was the original Maw, where you couldn’t use most ground mounts so you were basically playing through a level 1-39 Classic zone in a 2020 version of WoW. And where the rep you spent forever grinding for had a lot of player power locked behind it. And where as you completed objectives you’d fill up a meter that would throw nuisances at you as you filled it and, once filled, it effectively locked you out of the zone for the day.

And then there was the incredibly disliked Patch 9.1, which introduced a horrible new zone in Korthia with a 30+ day rep grind that locked a ton of player power behind it, introduced a disliked raid, and introduced a system tied heavily to that disliked raid that felt like a spiteful version of tier sets. That system, Shards of Domination, involved killing raid bosses, praying you got specific shards (there were three groups of three: the Blood, the Frost, and the Unholy shards), upgrading them with a weekly-limited currency called Stygian Embers, and in you equipped all three Shards of a type and had a specific armor slot from the raid (Helm for Unholy, Shoulders for Frost, and Chest for Blood) you could activate very powerful set bonuses. The upgrade system for these set bonuses was added the week before the raid released so it went untested. At the time 9.1 launched the Unholy set bonus was exclusively the best option, by a large margin, and when fully upgraded your Unholy set bonus was worth a whopping 15% of your damage in the raid. The Blood and Frost sets were comparatively incredibly weak. So Blizzard announced they’d nerf all three sets three weeks after World First ended, effectively buffing the entire raid by like 7.5%. Players absolutely freaked out over this, so Blizzard walked it back and instead buffed the Blood/Frost sets to be as good as (or often better than) the Unholy set. But by that point, most players had upgraded their Unholy set with their, again, very limited Stygian Embers that you could farm only a finite amount of per week and that had no catchup mechanisms in place for and as such retroactively had their upgrades invalidated anyway.

Eventually, Patch 9.1.5 rolled around and fixed almost all of these gameplay issues. Covenants were freely swappable, Conduit Energy was removed, Soul Ash/Cinders were farmable, all the Torghast wings would eventually be open simultaneously, the Archivist’s Codex rep became something that took you 2 hours to max out instead of 30+ days, etc.

And it’s important to note that this was at the height of COVID and that Blizzard really didn’t have the infrastructure needed to support developing the game remotely. So Shadowlands had an abysmal patch cadence. Patch 9.0 lasted eight months when it should’ve ended in about six, and 9.1 lasted quite long as well. This expansion was doomed to ship the way it did and there was almost no way Blizzard was ever going to be able to correct course even if they weren’t stubborn about their vision for SL being healthy for the game.

People hated 9.1, and the fact that the Activision Blizzard lawsuit was filed when people were at their most frustrated about the patch didn’t help. This admittedly had very little to do with most of the then-current Blizzard dev team, but it painted a grim picture of Blizzard’s frat boy culture and questionable leadership throughout the late 2000s/early 2010s. People hated playing WoW, and this controversy was the push so many players needed to quit the game for good.

That said, 9.1.5 was a good patch. But it was good not because it added anything, but because it specifically removed all the dumb, arbitrary restrictions Shadowlands forced onto players prior to that patch.

Eventually, Patch 9.2 rolled around and I think it gets a lot of unfair hate. It offered a LOT of cosmetics to farm for but didn’t have some absurd player power grinds like pre-9.1.5 Shadowlands did, the Zereth Mortis zone was pretty stunning, and the raid was neat. That said, 9.2 had a lot of problems as well.

9.2’s story sucked just like the rest of SL’s story. For what it’s worth, there was absolutely no way Blizzard could’ve fixed that aspect of SL mid-expansion by this point. It is what it is.

9.2 also had infamously the hardest raid we’d ever gotten prior to that point, and a raid that is still considered to have been one of the hardest raids of all time. Bosses like Anduin and Rygelon, even on HEROIC, obliterated casual AotC-only guilds by the hundreds if not the thousands, and the Mythic version of this raid burnt out WoW’s most hardcore audience unlike anything else. Sepulcher was a frustrating raid, be it for hardcore players or for casual players.

And then 9.2.7 happened, and the Fated season came into existence. If you played DF’s Awakened season (which sucked donkey balls), think this except it was actually a lot better. For what it’s worth, Fated was probably better than extending Sepulcher by another 4-5 months when people hated it a lot, but 9.2.7 was infamous because it was a relatively low-effort, buggy-at-launch patch that didn’t introduce anything new but rather recycled the previous Shadowlands raids and all the megadungeons, plus two WoD dungeons, as its M+ season. Fated wasn’t that bad (DF’s Awakened season was abysmal though), though.

But here’s the problem with Shadowlands: it actually got mostly better, at least from a gameplay perspective, but it only got better halfway into the expansion’s lifespan. If you didn’t play Shadowlands prior to 9.1.5, it’s almost impossible to explain to you just how hostile the game’s core design felt to the game’s wider playerbase. The game pre-9.1.5 felt like it was explicitly designed to make you feel like you were being punished for wanting to play the game, and that design direction killed Shadowlands for a lot of players. Shadowlands started out really rough after the first couple weeks, stayed rough for a year, and by the time it got really good many players had already written Shadowlands off, and I frankly can’t blame any of them for doing so.

2 Likes

I loved Shadowlands.

The fantasy in that expansion was incredibly immersive. The story is interesting to me and got me actually googling about character histories and stories.

I loved the soundtracks in Shadowlands too just as much as the starting zones. There is something special about the music in certain zones that makes it worth staying to discover and re-discovering.

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It was far too large in scale and didn’t deliver on that scale very well. The story was pedestrian at best and called a lot of other lore into question or didn’t deliver on it well at all, Torghast was repetitive and required, there was the aforementioned metric butt-ton of borrowed power, and it tried to make us feel bad for Sylvanas, whom MANY players were already tired of. On top of that, the villain had the players dead to rights a ton of time and just let them go instead of finishing them off. The villain let us win in spite of all logic. It might have been a good idea in concept, but it was a turd wrapped in solid gold foil.

Once there was a skip to the intro and the Gauntlet was introduced it became a tolerable place to level.

SL sucked, S1 torghast was horrid, at least for rogues, they did try to fix it with healing anima power but it was all rng… buying leggo was expensive as hell too every patch, dungeons most where horrid

As an expansion, it tried to do too much while limiting how much you could do within a broad but shallow pool.

From a narrative POV, if the focus of the expansion had been on creating a credible threat as opposed to retconning major plot points into being a lead-up to the mastermind they tried to insist on the Jailer being, it would’ve been fine. They focused too much on making the Jailer an impressive foe responsible for crap that already happened rather than providing him with an overwhelming presence in the game world. Instead specific leaders got abducted with little to no other interaction in Azeroth. Even the “unleashed Scourge” were relegated to a mediocre pre-expansion event locked to Icecrown.

As far as system interaction went, the expansion overall was fairly bad. Legendaries and the multitude of related currencies shoved into Torghast turned Torghast into Choreghast for most people, and the Torghast we actually saw was a decent but pared-down version of the one that existed in Alpha/early Beta. The original was a huge roguelike procedurally-generated mega dungeon. Covenants initially were made into a pain to deal with with timegating baked into every aspect of them, and switching was deliberately made painful early on with no narrative justification for it whatsoever.

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Absolute dogwater in terms of story/lore and gameplay.

Amazing visuals, great mogs, and decent worldbuilding.

It’s a solid 3/10 expansion, but maybe a 5 or 6 if you’ve never played WoW before or were never exposed to the lore beforehand.