No new talent tier since WoD.
No new abilities for classes only a return of what should have never been pruned.
The point of the level squish just hides the obvious. What is the point of going from level 50 to 60 into the new expansion?
Blizzard has a big problem on their hands if they want to keep retail in maintenance mode.
This is because if a player is forced to choose no character progression with retail with the upcoming expansion that makes classic , very, very attractive and appealing.
Yup, squish isn’t a fix. It is a bandaid to hide the real problem.
Haha, here we go.
They take away the Azerite and artifact grind and people complain
I would argue people don’t like rental abilities all that much. I think bringing back tier sets as an expansion temporary system is far better than what they are proposing.
Given that there is a level squish happening there is room to expand the talent system which should carry forward into the next expansion.
Yeah, no new abilities… except the new covenant related abilities… and possible new abilities from forged legendaries… and abilities from soul binding.
And I disagree about the leveling. I suspect 50-60 is going to feel a lot more meaningful than 120-130, especially since the zones will be level progression the first time through.
Your gloom and doom analysis is based an a partial picture of an early look. Go read up a bit more, pet a puppy, have some ice cream, and come back when you’re ready to be rational!
So we’re just forgetting about the 3 talents you get from your covenant?
What is the point of going from 120-130 in the new expansion? I’d also like to know what this level squish is hiding. 
What?
Not a fan of legendary system proposed in shadowlands. It is just an expansion of the legendary cloak with no RNG tied to it. But the use of so many temporary systems to grow character power in the expansion I would argue makes it harder to balance as there is no carry over. Thus with no carry over into the next expansion the slate is clean and the devs have the gargantuan task of re-balancing entire classes again since so much character power it tied to temporary systems.
People also said “we dont want borrowed power systems again!”
And yet, we’re getting …
Covenants (you know the special abilities will only work in Shadowlands).
Soulbinds (again, those will stop working once we leave Shadowlands).
And that’s just from what they’ve revealed so far. Yeah, more borrowed power systems that will go away when Shadowlands is dead in the water.
Clearly you didn’t see our listen to anything regarding the expansion.
You are spotting the opposite of what they said.
Your thread makes it clear you are in the classic camp. Go play it. Enjoy it.
Goodbye
I disagree.
I would argue if retail is no longer going to expand the talent system then it is directly competing with classic. Classic is static while in theory retail should be more dynamic from expansion to expansion.
One of the appeals of retail compared to classic servers in other MMORPGs is the main retail game sees expansion and lasting character growth. I can overlook the level squish but without talent or character expansion that doesn’t carry over from expansion to expansion it hints that the devs are trying to control player power in an expansion with an array of temporary systems.
“But what’s the point of these abilities if we only use them for 2 years?!”
This complaint is baffling to me.
Without the expansion specific specials game play gets stale. As far as balance goes I think they’re acknowledging that balance shouldn’t mean equal. Balance means everyone has something to bring to the table and you should pick your class based on what you think is most fun. That frees them up from having to focus on strict equality and lets them make sure everyone gets something unique and cool. It’s a win.
How? How does that make Classic appealing?
There’s no character progression once you hit the ceiling of that either. The only difference is that with classic you already know every inch of the content and the graphics suck.
I’ll take the game with more content to tool around in over a game I know will never change.
Things that never should hav even added to begin with? So if I steal all your money and give it back to you a year later all is forgiven and you’d expect no interest or something extra on top of it?
I disagree.
In the past expansion specific tier sets accomplished that goal of making things different in an expansion. Since gear resets per expansion that was satisfactory for players that tier sets would go away. But remember that classes were more well rounded during the era where tier sets existed in game. And there was a glyph system as well which came into existence since WotLK.
The “unpruning” is extremely underwhelming. Probably very few rotation changing abilities.
I wasn’t aware that wow was in maintenance mode.
Imagine if we had to contend with Legion’s artifact, on top of patch 7.3.5’s Netherlight Crucible abilities, on top of Azerite gear, on top of Tier sets, on top of the Legendary ring, on top of the Legendary Cloak, on top of Azerite Essences finishing off with Legiondaries, 2 slots.
At some point, the game would be completely impossible to even a smidgen of sense of. What actual GCDs would even be open for class abilities, and not just hitting all the “expansion” toys.
Borrowed power systems are fine, it gives us a temporary mechanic to modify our toons, without adding bloat on top of bloat all the time.
The story isn’t that appealing since WoD. All that is left is exploration of new zones which I have to admit is not appealing to many players. Other players prefer to play dungeons, raids and instanced PVP and not so much into exploration. So yeah classic is going to draw more players from retail if shadowlands doesn’t deliver lasting character growth.
I mean, I play dungeons and raids pretty much as my main content. And retail offers me a lot more of those than the same ones I finished in the early 2000’s.