I, personally, would feel that scenario would exonerate the Horde (by splitting it into the heroic playable group vs the happy-to-burn-fleeing-civilians NPC loyalists) - that was the goal I had in mind coming up with it. But I’m sure plenty of others would disagree or want more revenge.
2 Likes
Yes, because I hate the idea of them being dug up from the trash bin to get screen time at all.
7 Likes
So the best we can hope for is that you feel differently about the playable Horde vs the NPC Horde? That … feels kind of weird. Why do we have to have the disconnect between the two?
1 Like
Yes, it would be difficult but yes, i had to if i want to keep any faith in alliance leaders. that has to be true. that they were right to seek peace despite the multiple, multiple horde atrocities.
Something that makes me say “so peace was actually a good choice after all!”
But we can’t do that when it is show to me, on a consistent way that not only they have a leadership problem, but also is the people and races itself.
in the last war they have show me that the only reason why they stopped their genocidal war is because sylvanas randomly said that they suck.
No, i would stop, the moment that is not longer true.
2 Likes
I think I may have phrased it weirdly: I meant the division to be Sylvanas loyalists (breaking off to be a NPC faction) vs the playable Horde, not Horde players vs Horde NPCs. I’ll reword my post.
5 Likes
I don’t know how many others i speak for, but i am vehemently opposed to any further story that requires me to kill my own faction, no matter how you try to dress it up.
31 Likes
Sorry to blunt cap it, but there is never going to be any redemption. Or, at least there shouldn’t ever be any redemption; that’s a stain that needs to stay, because to white wash it and say “whoops we willingly followed an order to commit genocide, regardless of circumstance, but we made up for it by doing x” is an absolute disservice to the Alliance narrative.
You don’t get a take back. Ever.
Can the Horde try to make progress towards redemption? They should certainly be able to try, and I think you proposed a pretty solid idea as to how they can start, but there will never ever be a moment, even in my wildest dreams, where the Horde could ever reasonably remove that stain through any act or service or narrative. Blizzard went way too far, and there isn’t any dialing it back.
My biggest issue is the notion that ‘acts and services’ can undo what happened. Let’s start with remorse, because I’ve seen absolutely 0 meaningful in game dialogue or interactions since the launch of BFA regarding Teldrassil from the Horde. Blizzard missed every single opportunity to have characters (aside from Saurfang -which is an entirely separate issue) respond in an impactful way. They screwed that pooch real hard.
Re: your other points. I think there’s a lot of potential, but then again, BFA had potential to. It isn’t about the ‘concepts’, it’s about the execution. Time and time again, Blizzard has proven they do not have what it takes to carry out the execution.
Burning down Teldrassil? AWESOME CONCEPT. Execution? Worst story roll out ever in this game.
I think Shadowlands has a lot of potential to revisit ‘failures’ of the past in the narrative and try to have connected characters come to grasps/terms with them, but until they address a lot of the big story elements that are still unresolved from BFA, a lot of Shadowlands is gunna seem out of place, IMO.
3 Likes
From a meta standpoint, no. There is nothing that the horde can do to atone for the atrocity they committed. They can only look to be better in the future but they can’t erase or make up for it.
The writers will do whatever they want.
2 Likes
I’m not sure what you want alliance players to feel about your faction. Some of us aren’t mad at the players, only the characters. Some of us don’t care for either, others hate the players and characters, and some love both parts.
There’s no option that pleases everyone.
5 Likes
Irony coming from the kings of whitewashing.
12 Likes
Blizzard putting in at least the bare minimum effort at writing coherent narratives going forward, I am oddly confident, would begin to please just about everyone. Impossible ask, but I’d say it’s a good bet.
2 Likes
Care to add anything constructive, or are you here just to suck up air and make snide comments for no reason at all?
1 Like
My point is the opposite of yours. If it doesn’t matter what the writers write and the players will be unsatisfied regardless, then the writers have carte blanche to write whatever they want.
3 Likes
Usually I stick with making snide comments.
But to say that terrible things can’t be whitewashed out of the story is rich, or that you’re somehow the arbiter of what can and can’t be amended. Generally speaking, what I am opposed to is any further destruction of the Horde narrative to satisfy Alliance players who dislike the manner in which they won, and vehemently opposed to any proposed solution that requires me to engage in yet more Horde on Horde violence. This is not directed strictly at you, per se, but the idea being floated in this thread is why I came in here in the first place, and your pompous pronouncement happened to get my attention.
17 Likes
Do you factor in that Sylvanas and Nathanos and their minions are no longer part of your faction?
1 Like
I find this to be shallow window dressing. I will derive no joy from killing either one of them, and am in fact quite opposed to doing so. I effectively consider Blizzard’s story to be one of enormous attempted manipulation, and even if it is ultimately shouting into the wind, I refuse to buy into the outcome they clearly want: me hating Sylvanas.
30 Likes
Would you be fine with it if it was an Alliance-only scenario? The Alliance player could fight the loyalists while the Horde player gets a different plot.
2 Likes
I still wouldn’t be happy about it, but that is because I am generally unhappy with the way that Blizzard writes the Alliance-facing Horde as almost an entirely separate entity. I also think these specific requirements to declare themselves the purveyors of Teldrassil and not part of the current Horde to be extraordinarily ridiculous - such dialogue reeks of being fake. Nobody ever naturally says things like that - only cardboard cutout villains in children’s cartoons, which is unfortunately what WoW may be turning into.
14 Likes
Oh, sure - I agree there. Though, while the wording could be tweaked - or their identities can be confirmed by spies (let SI:7 get a few more notable successes to go alongside their notable failures) - the current level of writing sounds about right for some cardboard cutouts.
4 Likes
It’s really a matter of what question we’re asking, not what answer is being received.
You cannot ‘undo’ genocide. Can they erase the past? No. But can the Horde make strides to be better? Absolutely.
We need characters to acknowledge and accept, take ownership, and then push onwards without any expectation of ‘redemption’. To insinuate that there can be redemption is to invalidate what’s happened in the past.
It’s the difference, in narrative progression, between a character growing from their struggles, and a character achieving something new regardless of their past.
Fair, tbh.
Agreed. Period. You don’t need the rest of this sentence. Stop it here and it’s golden. We should have GOOD narratives regardless of what happens with the other faction.
Blizzard’s biggest error was tying the narratives together every expansion. Let them progress and grow independently. Both have fantastic culture and lore, and all of it is trashed when they throw us all in the scrap bin together.
A) I speak for myself, always; just so it’s been said.
B) However, as a WoW Player, an Alliance fan, an author, story runner, dungeon master, and a dozen other things - I am absolutely the authority on my own opinions and desires relevant to the WoW narrative.
I have a pretty dang good idea what would work for me, as someone who has played both sides since Launch, up until BFA.
4 Likes