Shadowlands Game Designers Protecting Us from Covenants

It will be open for you, they already said you can switch. Nobody is denying you of that option. You just can’t switch it like a talent, so you’ll have to take on the task of character progression to switch it up. Character progression is an amazing aspect in many RPG’s and I’m glad we’re getting a huge dose of it in Shadowlands.

I knew you’d come around one day! :slight_smile:

Being able to switch once easily then it being significantly difficult for every subsequent time does not equal an open system.

Could you give some examples of many RPGS without a built in respec system for it’s power/skills?

Very much looking forward to your reply!

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There’s nothing wrong with working for something, what you’re asking for is just another talent.

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The bonuses for remaining loyal would have to be far greater to off set the advantages of being able switch freely. What you suggested wouldn’t even come close.

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A lot of the arguments on here sound like “I want more choice”, but in reality are actually “I want everything I want.”

Well, if you get everything you want, you really didn’t make a choice, did you.

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I still remember poisoning the Aldor victory soup in Shattrath. No ragrets

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I see you missed my question, I’m not surprised we could see early in this thread your eyes aren’t working in great order today.

Could you give some examples of many RPGS without a built in respec system for it’s power/skills?

Very much looking forward to your reply (again!)

I’d rather have the option to make a bad choice or gamble on an ability that might work out then have the option completely ruled out.

Example:

On Mythic Azshara, there were a few people saying Downpour was sick when nobody was using. I tried using it and it was in fact terrible - But what’s important is I was able to try it out.

Choosing to pick the best ability for the job is a choice, just like how Ralph chooses to use a non meta talent because he’d be a META SLAVE.

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“Everything I want” would be wanting all covenant abilities and perks at the same time.

Freely swapping still limits you to only one at a time. So no - not everything one wants.

They would also still have to earn and grind their way through each of the covenants to gain the benefits earned for when they switch.

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Lovely lovely lovely, 100%

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Looking forward to Yesunas reply honestly the most.

I play a lot of RPGs and I’ve not played with one with this system.

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literally go farm m+ 24/7 because they have no limitations and contain only few items from a big pool of rng

You’re taking what I said way out of context, but I’ll play your silly little game…

I’m pretty sure Dragon Age Origins didn’t allow it. I suppose you’ve never played Baulders Gate. I could go on and on but like I said, you took what I said out of context. You can ‘respec’ your covenant system in Shadowlands, it just takes a little work.

If you would have played WoW back in the day you would have known how expensive it was to respec back and forth then too, it wasn’t an easy take like it is today.

:woman_shrugging:

Apart from the half-baked philosophy of choice that’s happening here, can we agree that having access to all of the covenants provides more fun vis-a-vis gameplay? It opens up so many options (if ya’ll can’t agree on “choice”) with how to approach different kinds of content.

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We’ve been through this Yesuna,

I literally have screenshots form when I raided Naxx in Vanilla and I have achievements on my account for opening the dark portal.

i totally agree with that.

Allowing covenants to be freely changed is what would give us player agency and choices.

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I like where you kept commenting about wanting my reply but then disregard it. lol gg

:wave:

I disagree on your “rewards”, because they’re actually punishments too, to the players that want to enjoy their gameplay. The only real way to fix covenants is for them to not affect gameplay at all. The non-gameplay changing aspects of covenants should be enough for anyone to want to stay loyal to a covenant. For instance me. I want to select my covenant and stay in it. However, the current system punishes that. I want covenants to matter, and making them easily swappable makes them worthless. The only real way to preserve covenant value while not punishing players is to make covenant abilities talents and not lock soulbinds and legendaries behind certain covenant choices.

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No, that defeats the whole purpose. We need critical choices in this game.

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Critical game choices can occur at the content level - they don’t need to be punishing across so many aspects of the game by being restrictive.

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Super Mario RPG stat bonuses
Paper Mario HP/SP/Badge Points
Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga level point bonuses
Breath of Fire 3 and 4 Master bonuses and penalties
Final Fantasy 6 Esper stat growth system
Dragon Quest 9 Alltrades Abbey (costly respecs require starting the job again from level 1)
Diablo 2 (costly limited respecs)
Path of Exile (costly respecs with recursive penalties in the form of needing orbs of regret)
Xenosaga 2 and 3 character skill trees
Everquest Online Adventures class quest abilities (i.e. wound line or aggro drop skill line for rogues) as well as the class mastery points above level 55
EQ - Alternate Advancement point allocation
Champions of Norrath skill trees
Quest 64’s elemental spell selection 50/50/50/50 skill tree
FFX’s sphere grid requiring a brand new AP level to backtrack 3 or 4 spaces (can’t remember if its 3 or 4)
Star Ocean 2 and 3’s skill points (don’t remember a thing about SO4 and haven’t played SO5)
Phantasy Star Online’s power/hp/tp/evade/mind/defense material usage
Valkyrie Profile skill CP
Shin Megami Tensei’s STR/DEX/MAG/VIT/LUCK growth allocation (only played 2 on the SNES where you can’t respec the 3 heroes. Can’t vouch for if you can respec the hero in Nocturne or not but I’m guessing that’s a no)

That’s off the top of my head without putting too much thought into it and only coming up with the ones that let you actually tinker with the talents or choices to any degree. I actually like RPGs. You really have no idea what you’re talking about if your idea of a gotcha question is so damn easy to answer. It’s fine to be wrong, just the utter confidence you have in trying to mechanically fit a square peg into a round hole in a genre you understand nothing about is mindboggling to me. Dunning Krueger is absolutely real.

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