I actually like this idea a lot. Too bad this forum is a graveyard for good ideas. I will drop this in the suggestion window in beta.
That is very sad 
Feral just needs a rework, They need something unique they need something else like a 20 second odd CD Damage ability which is apart of the rotation.
Current rotation is getting old. Utiulity is all over the place with no real unique style, just balance druid but worse.
2 Likes
The new berserk effects are tied to leveling (level 52 and 58 i think for the 3cp shred crits and the 2cp refunds on 5cp finishers).
When Berserk is up shred non crit gives 2cp and shred crit gives 3cp in addition do dealing extra damage. Brutal Slash despite costing less still gives 1cp non crit, 2cp crit.
At the moment this causes the gameplay of:
Using only shred as generator since it deals more damage than brutal slash (stealth + cp bonus).
Since there is a lack of energy its basically:
- wait for clearcasting then push shred
- push your finisher (usually ferocious bite) if it crits
- Rake/BrS/Moonfire if you need the 5th CP.
if you go from 2cp to 4cp (shred non crit), then you use empowered rake.
There’s pretty much no ability to proc bloodtalons as you are only casting shred/rake+finisher and you don’t have the energy to cast anything else, you’re basically sacking a 3rd finisher for 30% on two finishers so you would just cast the 3rd finisher.
night fae ability is one trigger to get your energy back up + restore bloodtalons stacks which makes it quite strong.
Might have some 4cp finisher (rip/SR) play during berserk (still thinking about it).
1 Like
/facepalm Please tell me you’re being sarcastic.
Repeatedly testing Bloodtalons on the PTR
At present, I feel that this talent is just like Monk’s Windwalker gameplay.
There is no innovation at all, and the DPS benefit brought by the new Bloodtalons is not high
At least it feels like this to me now, the benefit is not high, and the DPS output is still not improved.
For the evaluation of this talent, I still feel that the removal is more practical
After the Berserk effect is swapped with Incarnation…
To be honest, maybe only Moment of Clarity can fully play its value
On the contrary, it is difficult for Bloodtalons to have better DPS output (in the burst of damage output, in this period of time)
The feedback is not good in operation. I seriously recommend that BZ redesign Druid directly.
I know I’m late to the party here (just started cruising the forums again, after a LONG break), but I tend to agree with the feeling that there’s a serious lack of feral love, and that Bliz has consistently taken away the things that made druids unique. In this case, I’m talking about the feral/guardian specs specifically, because in my opinion, guardian is almost as sadly unloved as feral.
Every other straight DPS class or spec has a way to pull from a distance. For us that used to be Faerie Fire. Gone.
Okay, what about survivability? Mobility? Utility? All either gone, or eclipsed by other classes. Even mages have more than us now.
If we’re talking about “depruning” and giving us something to make us a viable option to bring on a raid over a rogue (or any other dps spec), why not bring back the combined feral spec?
I know a lot of people will probably find exception to this, but that was a truly unique utility no other class really could claim. It WAS possible to play a cat feral and lead the dps charts, while filling in as an off-tank, or just popping in when the SHTF, and literally saving entire raids. And if you decided to focus on bear tanking, you could still easily pop into cat and pull respectable dps when the fights would allow for it, or you just wanted a different play style.
By splitting the two, Bliz made us mediocre DPS and mediocre tanks, with nothing to set either apart from any other DPS or Tank.
Just my two cents, but THAT ability, to shift forms depending on the needs of the situation, was what made us truly unique among the classes and viable options for raiding, arena, or any other kind of PvP.
1 Like
We have moonfire still. I don’t think rogue has a ranged pull either. The only other straight dps classes are all ranged (Mage, warlock, Hunter) so obviously they can pull from a distance. Let’s not start exaggerating.
Rogues have ranged pulls. Different for every spec but it’s
Assassin - Poisoned Knife
Sub: Shuriken Toss
Outlaw: Pistol Shot
4 Likes
Okay that’s fair. Had a brain fart. Regardless, we still can pull from ranged using Moonfire.
3 Likes
This is already easily possible in BfA (and will be even stronger in SL)… feral with guardian affinity or guardian with feral affinity.
Its just that 99% of ferals use the balance affinity and 99% of guardians use the resto affinity.
3 Likes
Found an interesting video a few days ago where sloot discusses Feral with Guiltyasferal and Psybearslat for a grand total of 2 hours and 35 minutes.
2 Likes
I am a Senior Game Designer. I specialize in Systems design (which includes things like class balance).
I have spent the last two weeks talking to people about the design flaws of feral, and the massive lack of attention it has verse boomkin. If you measure up, boomkin has armor in boomkin form, cannot be slept, and also has significantly more utility with things like deep roots, prickling thorns, and the big one fairy swarm. On top of this balance druid in a pvp sense also holds to the king of burst and rot damage over feral in pvp and feral in itself has no uniquely defining attribute to it.
After multiple weeks of talking to players (of which are some of the top in game) about the class, I am still unsure of what feral should get. The problem is very complicated, and is really subject to a few issues. What I am looking for is something that will make the class unique, but here are a few things i looked at.
- PvP Talent or baseline hibernate can be used on humanoids (and moonkins are now a beast and are subject to hibernate and fear best (hunter)
- This would enable the druid to play a more rogue like objective in rbgs.
- a PvP talent that enabled feral to bite out of stealth, and shifted the stun over from rake to this bite.
- a limited high uptime mortal strike (much like wind walker has) but I do not care for this idea as much as others
- A “hunt” like feral baseline ability.
- Undetectable stealth
- A mechanic that enables feral to see footsteps with in 40 yards of sheathed people to get an idea of where they are.
- Moving shroud from rogue to feral usable in rbgs.
- Dire cat form, a permanent new form that replaces incarnation (moving incarnation to baseline or removing it)
- Silence when rooted pvp talent
- Moving deep roots over to pvp feral talents
- Changing star surge from balance to balance moonbeam, and moonkin form to fairy swarm
- Changing lunar inspiration (talent) to enable moonfire and sunfire in cat form.
- A mechanic /ability that enables the feral druid to change team members into cat form for a very short period (king of the jungle rework) that has a very low cd, intended to directly challenge RMP/RMpala Comps by removing poly.
- This effect could be done by adding a pvp talent that enables stampeding roar to cleanse charm (poly) effects.
All of these idea’s seemed interesting and I favor a few over the others, but to be honest I think feral needs to be touched significantly. here’s what I’d look at.
- Converting Rip into a disease effect that is applied on a bite (removing rip as an ability from the game), naming it “rabies” which spreads itself to targets with in a specific range of an infected player as a sort of self-spreading dot.
- Removing primal wrath and creating a talent “infectious diseases” which increases its base range to spread.
- Removing stampeding roar (SR) from Guardian, Restoration, and Balance and setting it baseline to feral with a 30-45 second cool down to enable feral to obtain group specific utility.
- Removing Feral affinity from balance, and balance affinity from feral and adding a new talent. These combinations of affinities do not mesh well together and are all around not practical. In order for them to be so, you’d have to do some things that wound fundamentally break the class like giving beam to feral, or removing stealth from boomkin’s with out feral affinity (to validate feral affinity).
- Savage Roar is a good ability, and should not cost energy or combo points but should instead have a cooldown and lower bonus values (10%?)
- Alternatively, savage roar can act as a reset (like preparation) that would reset the cooldown of Tigers fury, Stampeding Roar, and Berserk.
- Alternatively, savage roar can act as a reset (like preparation) that would reset the cooldown of Tigers fury, Stampeding Roar, and Berserk.
- It would be amusing to see a second interrupt stack for feral and some sort of ability that increases its range to charge the target.
The following should definitely be done
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Brutal slash should be single target and apply a healing debuff (30%)
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Removing the damage bonus from saber tooth and increasing the duration of bleeds to 5 seconds after a bite.
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Blood talons should be changed to reduce the duration of bleed effects 50% (to half its value) but deal the full damage. instead of its current iteration.
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Feral frenzy should deal twice its damage over time effect and should be applied instantly (ie in one swipe), or should have a much lower cd (8-12 seconds).
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[Rip and Tear] should be redesigned so that it applying a rip applies a rake (passive)
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[King of the Jungle] Should be applied so that feral gain
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Add fairy swarm to pvp talents.
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Change ferocious bite so that it enables the druid to bite someone from stealth stunning them for 5 seconds and dealing a full bite damage. Making this a useable ability in stealth with a fairly low cd (30-45 seconds) would be ideal.
I know this seems like a big rework and it is but for the most part this is really corrections to issues and shifting around the specs damage instead of increasing it.
In general feral needs more utility.
3 Likes
Leaving PvP aside for a moment, but we had this already in BFA when Sabertooth effectively made Rip’s duration infinite. While no one can doubt its effectiveness, (it was the top talent by a country mile for the entirety of the expac both in PvP and in raid) it made for perhaps the most boring iteration of Feral I’ve ever played. I want there to be room for error in the way I use my combo points. If the only correct answer to my combo point spending abilities is Bite that doesn’t make for particularly interesting gameplay. Especially for a spec that gets most of its nuance and complexity from managing bleed snapshots and pandemic timers.
These are all very interesting ideas, but a total rework is unrealistic. There are a couple small things that can be done to improve feral that can be addressed via hotfix:
- Armor increased 100% while in cat form
( A druid should be at their weakest in caster form. A shape-shifting should provide SOME protection.) - Stampeding Roar moved to feral spec only
(Provides needed spec utility) - Cyclone and Rejuvenation castable in cat form
(Adds to survivability) - Ferocious Bite damage reduced by 5%-8%
- Bleed damage increased by 10%-15%
- Thrash applies a 20% snare for its duration
I do like some of your ideas. Savage Roar as a reset…sort of like Cold Snap is how I would see it. Or maybe add an AoE fear ability to its current iteration. Very unlikely, but would be cool to see.
2 Likes
Due to budgeting, this may be true but I do think its possible.
Damage on feral is an interesting topic. In my opinion, the class really does not need more damage, but there is a consistent issue where, when they dont have gear they dont do well. So lowering the gap on the gearing process making feral require less gear to be at its peak performance would be a good move for the class. This could be done with these types of small changes in conjunction with some coefficient changes.
This is not the same as infinite rip. This is more of a bite the people in the right area which means your constantly moving around and biting people. I could be ok with removing the spread mechanic and maybe making it talented, or pvp talented but the feral class needs some sort of rot pressure. if paired with healing reduction, it could provide a sort of play style like the old sin build where you sat in fight and applied healing reduction. This would give feral an immense amount of value in both melee and rot comps.
I think perhaps you missed the context I was trying to frame. How does your proposed Bite with no Rip option play when there is only one target? When you’re in a PvE raid situation. Or even in situations where all the mobs you’re fighting don’t have agency and will remain clumped on the tank like every dungeon ever? Then it is exactly like infinite Rip. We shouldn’t sacrifice PvE for the sake of PvP. It feels like you’re designing for arenas while forgetting that the rest of the game exists.
I am not advocating that change for the sake of “pve”, of which i never do it. I am largely an Rbger. I am advocating for the rot on feral to make its damage output provide aoe healing reduction and dots to pair well with rot teams, and melee a like while being simi-competitive with balance.
There is more to playing around class skill cap then rip > bite, and by the way Ripe > bite is not exactly the pennicle of feral game play and choice making. If anything the last two weeks of talking to people has proven this (through feedback).
bringing back the bleed kite is just not an option. It was cancer for people to verse it, and it was all around bad for the game. The bursty nature of feral in its current state is far more stable and beneficial for the class. Many players agree rip+bite makes no sense and its /yawn. When it comes to game play taking a talent and biting your rip targets which fall off to do sub-par burst because you need to apply a useless dot in pvp (out side of the anti-stealth mechanic) is nonsensical and every player is very clear about this in their feedback on the class.
No but if you remove all Feral finishers aside from one then you are indeed removing choice and complexity from the spec. Putting aside the fact that tying Rip into Bite means that there is no more snapshotting and no more pandemic. There’s no longer anything to manage aside from Rake. And when you remove the plates that need to be spun in a time-sensitive manner then you also remove the need to energy pool. We don’t need to imagine the world where the only finisher is Bite. We lived it for all of BfA. It was not the most fun version of Feral that ever existed and I for one do not want to go back to it.
Clearly.
Btw, We also have maim and savage roar…
Do you even feral?
Did you forget you said that?
Aside from Savage Roar, which I wouldn’t object to coming back in style, Maim is used only when you need to Stun. In a raid context those situations are limited to say the least. The normal rotation still only has one option for spending combo points.
Since I apparently don’t feel free to list these things that need managing in the normal rotation besides Rake if you remove Rip. I don’t generally consider “hit Tiger’s Fury on cooldown” to be something to manage.