You should put that on the alpha forums 
I haven’t seen treants discussed too much there, and although it looks like guardian and feral feedback is being ignored it’s a neat idea I’d like to see discussed.
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Yeah I agree. We really need someone with alpha access to make noise where it matters. We can talk back and forth here 'till we’re blue in the face. None of it will be seen.
The utility vs. other specs and just how many things force us out of form when Balance and Resto don’t have that worry is something that should be looked at.
Done. Although I commented from a Guardian perspective since I’m not sure how useful Feral treants were.
Probably still better for Feral than Heart of the Wild, though…
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You should continue that trend.
Don’t speak about feral.
While you might not like it for guardian, heart of the wild was absolutely game breaking for feral. If it comes back with even an ounce of its former glory, it will be a welcomed change. (Even without the stat boost)
Treants for feral right now would probably put them close to the meta… I doubt they would be in it since they don’t have hard cc or an immune, but it would get them invites to +24s and +25s.
Would make feral better than balance in m+ since dmg is better, healing is better and they have a melee kick
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They might have a hard CC. Depends on what the dungeons for Shadowlands looks like. Hibernate is as hard a CC as Imprison or Paralyze, its only issue is there’s no good targets for it in BFA.
Yeah it’s only really useful for bloodswarmers in Underrot
I’d love to see the beast/dragon limitation removed from hibernate.
I would also love to see the “breaks on damage” aspect of roots removed from pve, or at least increased. We have a tonne of cc already in place that’s rendered useless in most situations.
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I don’t think the limitation needs to be removed as such since Imprison also has limitations on the creature types it can be used on. It’s just just the creature types on Imprison are much much more common, humanoid is the most common enemy type in the game. So I’d be happy with just expanding the creature types on Hibernate even if we don’t expand it to all of them. I think we’d be able to make a case for Aberrations for example. If we don’t get that… Blizzard please remember that Hibernate exists. How are there no good targets in 12 dungeons with one of them being a dinosaur dungeon?
If anything it’s actually Paralyze that baffles me since that’s usable on every creature type in the game. Considering it seems to be modeled after a nerve pinch that locks up the body it’s odd that it works on things like Undead or Elementals.
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Monk gets the best of everything.
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Still have no desire for this talent. If I wanted my big burst window to be casting … I would play balance. Goes back to my point of why would people who play feral go gung ho about this, but hitting ps regrowth to proc bloodtallons is game breaking.
If HotW just enhanced the form you were in and not the affinity you picked then by all means. I picked feral because I want to do feral things, not spam wrath.
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I liked hotw in MoP because it was busted for healing in arena
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Good thing its a talent then, right?
No one is twisting your arm here.
Unless of course it becomes numerically superior, just like bloodtalons.
In which case… suck it up buttercup.
The problem is that it replaces Typhoon on the talent tree, if they had replaced some garbage talent instead (of which there is no shortage), I don’t think anyone would be bothered.
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So use balance affinity and get typhoon??!
Theres even a covenant ability that grants all affinity passives.
like… whats your issue?
There are two issues.
For bears, it’s that we lose the Typhoon + Vortex combo, which we rely on for Necrotic week and other times when kiting is necessary. Since we still have no slow.
For another, it’s the notion that the affinities grant really bad abilities, but if you blow a SECOND talent choice, then they become better. A lot of people just find this distasteful, no other spec I’m aware of has to spend 2 talent choices like that to get something.
Oh, and the third is that we still have so many trash talents, but Blizzard decided to take away a good one instead…
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Not very. They were on the same row as Incarnation and Soul of the Forest. Mechanically they were fine but they didn’t provide as much damage as the other options. IIRC most people took Incarnation in 5.4.
In raids, people only really used HoTW for two things on Feral: HotW+Tranquility for a raid cooldown, and HotW+Hurricane for AoE. There might have been a point early in MoP where Wrath spam with HotW provided a superior DPS cooldown, but Incarnation+DoC combo quickly outpaced it as our gear improved. It remained somewhat competitive with Dream of Cenarius precisely due to the passive stat buff.
In PvP it probably was indeed much more significant as our ability to offheal really shines in that context (and our offhealing in general was much stronger in MoP due to having access to the entire suite of Resto abilities).
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Gonna stop you right there and refer you to the thread tittle.
Stay in your lane.
This was more due to an early hotfix in which HoTW was nerfed considerably.
(for pvp reasons)
This is pretty much the biggest issue with the utility we have. On paper we have a lot, but much of it isn’t useful to groups. You never see a M+ listing in the group finder saying “LF1M need offtank” or “LF1M need Soothe” - and it’s largely down to encounter design.
I don’t really think it’s likely that encounter design will support offhealing/offtanking as a true “utility” outside of a few niche fights here and there. Dungeon and Raid design is always going to skew toward being completeable by a “holy trinity” group, especially since those roles are explicitly defined by the game now (and mechanics rely on them to, for example, know who to target). Sure, it could change I guess, but it would be a radical departure from the direction encounter design has been going basically since Wrath.
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And it shouldn’t be
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