WoD design was on the right track, it’s just that the talents just weren’t tuned well. Clarity of Power completely changed our baseline playstyle while Auspicious Spirits enhanced it. Void Entropy was bad and needed tuning, but having another maintenance DoT with an ability interaction was a good idea, it just wasn’t executed well.
Now we have what? Getting into Voidform faster, getting into Voidform on demand, and staying in Voidform longer? So boring. I wasn’t a huge fan of orbs but they were a good starting point.
You’re rightly very frustrated. But I would hold off on seeing if this is all they’re going to do.
Other classes have gotten great communication. This is one that feels like it needs a big overhaul. And there’s still plenty that need more touching up
I still don’t get the rework especially after the blue post, like the BFA version does exactly what they intend for the spell to do. If they are concerned about ti generating insanity without the execute then just remove that no need to gut the whole spell. I’m very confused.
Yeah, SW:D’s absurdly high backlash damage seems outrageous to me. I did some napkin math a little while ago and, with the latest incarnation of SW:D, it takes 45 seconds of VT healing (reduced a bit by Mastery) to counteract the damage of one non-execute SW:D. Double that time in execute, double that again for a crit, add some percentage extra if you hit it with a trinket proc.
I actually don’t mind it not generating Insanity by default. Without insanity generation, it’s a spell you want to cast early in a VF (replacing a MB), not late where the insanity matters or outside a VF where you want to get back in ASAP. Ironically the lack of interaction with the spec’s main mechanic actually makes it somewhat interesting, though it is admittedly weird. Before I would’ve just mashed it on CD, now not so much.
I’ve been playing Spriest since WotLK, and in that time, the developers have had this hard stance against Spriests. At first, their official excuse was, “Hybrids shouldn’t do more damage than pure DPS classes.” Okay, fine, but when other hybrid classes started outperforming the pure classes, this excuse died a horrible death. No excuses have been given since, except, “We feel Spriests are in a good way right now, but in the future we might take another look at it.”
I love playing Spriest. It’s one of, if not THE favorite class for me. What I’ve always had a problem with is the weak-feeling damage coming from them. In every expansion since WotLK, if you were playing a shadow priest, you HAD to have way better gear than everyone else, just to be on par with them. These days, it’s all about “extras” just propping the spec up.
What I would like to see with Shadow:
Voidform: Changed to a 3 or 4 minute CD, and acting much like DH’s Metamorphosis. For the duration, say 10-15 seconds, All non-channeled casts are instant, and channeled casts are available while moving.
Readdition of Shadow Orbs: Yes, I’m on that bandwagon, because during the SO time, the spec was getting better. Build 'em and spend 'em on a nuke. Simple.
Vampiric Embrace: Let’s get this back to its original form. In WotLK, it was a 30 minute raid buff. Every group wanted a Spriest in their raid because of this, no matter how much DPS they had.
Void Eruption: I actually really like the way this works as an AoE. The animation is cool, the damage is pretty great, the CD isn’t incessantly long, but it’s attached to a crappy mechanic in the current VF. Remove that aspect of it, and we’re Kosher.
Just the sheer power of the spec. Sure, if you’re the best geared player in the group, AND you play nearly flawlessly, you’re going to do great damage, and might even out DPS that BM hunter over there, but usually only until your haste buffs run out. Then, it’s back to tank numbers for you. This is honestly my biggest gripe with the spec, and has been for over a decade.
I’m sure there are more things I’ve thought of over the years, but these are the ones I think are holding the spec back the most, and will for the foreseeable future if things aren’t changed.
This might come off as a bit nit picky, but i’m going to do it anyway lol.
3-4 min CD for 10-15 sec up time is bad. Regardless how good it is, its too long for too little.
I would rather make it an active-able ability that doesn’t have a hard CD only because I think one of the attracting aspects of Shadow Priest in its entire history didn’t “really” have a DPS CD. We had Dark Evangelism and Shadow Fiend sure but putting those aside.
How about…
2 min CD. Last 30 sec. CD is reduced by 5 sec each time you cast “void bolt”.
OR (For faster / more use of it but its less impactful?)
1 min CD. Last 15 sec. CD us reduced by 3 sec each time you cast “void bolt”.
OR
Costs Shadow Orbs. 1 Orb minimum and lasts 5 sec per orb. Maximum 5 orbs for 25 sec.
I’d like for the passive to be base. Then via talents, It can become empowered (San’layn) and grant additional healing. Issue though is how to make this happen in a non clunky way. You cant just press it to activate it and then press again to activate the empowered version right?
So i was thinking of a few ideas to achieve this…
Base version can be lumped in with Shadow Form and then activating VE will only be required if you have the empowered version.
Base version will be a self buff like it used to be. Then spending orbs causes it to be empowered by x sec per orb spent.
Base version is a debuff like it was waaay back and then empowered version becomes a CD group buff.
I would like to tweak Void Eruption to to act as it does already in that it does that AOE damage while activating Void Form as well as becoming Void Bolt. This only to reduce button bloat.
I think its dumb that you have a Void Bolt button that is a useless keybind 1/2 the time and Void Eruption useless the other 1/2 the time.
Just merge them both into same button.
I would prefer if VF was an orb spender. You said it before the spec never really had a big dps cd and i think a lot of the players like that.
I would absolutely love for Vampiric Embrace to become a passive with an activatable spell too. SO in Shadowform you get %10-%15 leech and once you activate it it bumps it to around %85 and heals most injured target in raid/group. If talented into it becomes %100 leech and heals 2 most injured in raid/group. I think this would be fine because its only 15sec on a 2min cd.
For Void eruption, I think it should be another Aoe orb spender and a separate from Void bolt. Void bolt can be a cheap orb spender that extends DoT while DP is the big orb spender.
these are my suggestions and fantasies for the spec because obviously the Devs aren’t listening.
From reading this, sounds like you want void eruption to be an ability that we have access to more then just to “get into” void form.
So while in void form you gain access to both of these abilities? (Void Bolt & Void Eruption). My concern is that these abilities that you “gain” only while in Void Form make that dead keybinds when not in Void Form.
Instead, I would like to find a way to avoid having dead keybinds. If anything, I would rather go the empowered route.
Empowered route…
Mind Blast gets empowered and becomes Void Bolt while in Void Form. Complete with its short CD and being instant cast etc. (Becomes orb builder just like Mind Blast).
Devouring Plague gets empowered and becomes Void Eruption while in Void Form. I think this fits well as they would both still be spenders and the empowered version makes it become an AOE version. (Orb spender just like Devouring Plague)
I was more thinking to remove Mindsear and put VE in its place as an orb spender. While VB as a cheap orb spender incase target won’t live long enough for you to build up orbs for DP. So…
VE : AOE cost 3-5 orbs
VB: Single target extends DoTs (except DP) cost either 1orb
DP: basically MoP/WoD version cost 3-5orbs
I would also rename DP to Void Word: Devour or Entropic Void, to fit the theme so people won’t lose there mind and I would make it so we have 6 total orbs.
Voidform would take PI place: gives a fixed haste buff and double your orb generation for 20sec.
VE = Mind sear? or dead button? I see it as as problem either way. if it got “empowered” into VE from Mind Sear then it just feels odd as 1 is channeled and 1 is instant… but it should feel “better” when its empowered. My fear is if you want to use the “utility” aspect of Sear while in Void Form, you cant.
VB = Dead button?
DP = Nothing different? This is “fine” I guess, it works.
Builders vs Spenders.
With 3 spenders that you outlined (Single Target, Multi Target & Single Target DOT) it just starts to feel clunky. Then add on that we don’t have enough builders to fill those options. Just Mind Blast and what? SW:D on low health targets? That would work well once your in execute range but before then, you will have trouble getting to the point to use those spenders.
Unless i’m missing something, the “flow” of how this all works from out of Void Form to in Void Form and target in/out of execute range.
Could you list out how the spec would play/function in those 4 states?
I’m not a Dev so…my ideas might sound clunky. all I want is orbs back and the removal of VF/ramp up/keep up with drain mechanic.
If Voidform is to stay I would prefer it if either, it takes PI place so rename PI to Voidform for Shadow or make it a buff that last longer the more orbs it consumes like you suggested
with Mindsear I was thinking fully removing it and replace it with VE baseline which would consume orbs. So you would have a single target spender and an AOE spender.
Baseline you get a weak… VERY weak hitting Mind Sear that gives you the “utility” of being able to target an ally/enemy and aoe as they move etc.
Talents that empower or replace…
Void Eruption: Replace Mind Sear with Void Eruption. Does heavy amount of damage and costs orbs. Each orb used increases its damage by 20%.
Mind Ravage (cant think of a good name): Empowers Mind Sear to do 200% more damage and spreads Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch to 1 additional target for each pulse.
Unending Plague: Devouring Plague spreads to each target afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain (within 3 yards).
Something like that. I will come back and continue this later. But I need to get started on my work day.
Yes, these sound brilliant. I love all 3 talents. First step hopefully getting the Devs to bring back orbs. I have said this before but they can call them insanity orbs or void orbs or they can even name them reality orbs to fit the theme better.
Both of those second options put the spec in a very dangerous place regarding dot damage / value in different types of encounters. I get you wanna reduce the gcd investment in aoe, and that makes sense, but also the easier it is to apply all your dots to multiple targets, they weaker they have to be and the less relevant they are on single target, unless you put the talent that spreads them up against a very powerful single target only option to offset things.
If they are so adamant to keep the void form, at the very least they should put every artifact traits from Legion like mass hysteria as baseline.
Why? Because void form worked far better back then.
Also Devouring plague does not fix anything as it’s “just” another dot. To make it a good alternative to Void Form, DP should be instant damage instead and more powerful than Void form.
Devouring Plague IS a duct tape fix, but at this point I’ll take it. It allows me to skip Voidform in content where Voidform’s design doesn’t make sense. If Blizzard won’t fix Voidform, they should at least give us options to skip it. Which they have. Admittedly this will only work across lower content. I appreciate being able to play even a figment of my old Shadow Priest.
This does nothing to address the ramp up in dungeons, PvP, etc. Very first mob aside, at least questing has been largely addressed.
Does Blizzard owe us a real revamp? Oh YES they do. But this at least helps gameplay a little, and more importantly shows that they are trying to work with us.
DP damage needs to be tuned up and it needs to go back to MoP/WoD version where the DoT lasted only 5-6secs. Then would i bare with the spec until 10.0 where they finally remove voidform otherwise I’m out. I won’t be playing the game as long as Voidform remains.
