Shadowlands: Burning Rush and Spell Lock

Classes Warlock
1

Mobility and spell interrupts, IMO, are two painfully absent aspects to this class right now. As fun as the concept of demon gates/portals is, they really dont lend to greater mobility as much as the developers seem to think, and you cant always plan ahead where you’re going to need to be able to go. Burning rush is our only other option for mobility, and there isnt a single other instance where mobility is tied directly to massive health loss.

I could see it working if burning rush only drained a percentage of base health, but being 4% of your maximum health per second means, without external healing or damage factored in, you’ve only got 20-25 seconds of movement speed increase. Many classes have a similar movement speed boost that lasts 10-15 seconds with absolutely no downsides other than cooldown.

Even if a cooldown became necessary, I’d really like to see the health drain removed from burning rush. I get that it comes from a time when warlock class fantasy was draining life from enemies, but how often do you actually have time to sit there and drain life while you’re trying to avoid mechanics (sure would be nice if drain life could be used while moving, wouldnt it?).

Point is, burning rush seems overly punishing for what it offers, but we’re stuck with it because there are no alternatives.

Next up is spell lock. Warlocks have this tied to our felhunter pet. Interrupts have become an absolutely crucial part of endgame dungeons and raids, 100% required from most if not all of your DPS and tanks, and even sometimes healers, but to use our interrupt (which also happens to be on a much longer cooldown than many other class’ interrupts) we’re forced to use the felhunter, which means a loss in other utility or damage potential, doubly so for demonology which is already required to use the felguard in order to play to their potential.

Spell lock needs to be disconnected from the felhunter and made baseline for all warlock specs. In it’s place, why not add stealth detection, tracking, etc. to the felhunter for further utility differential?

6 Likes
2

If you start to patch up the weaknesses of every spec/class in the game, you get homogenisation, which is/has been a problem for a while. There is nothing wrong with weaknesses in specific areas of the game so long as the strengths make up for it. With warlocks, our main weakness is mobility. It’s helped in small part by our gateway and portal, but all in all, we’re a very slow class. Unfortunately, our damage for demo and afflic aren’t really on par with the weaknesses that we have.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t like extra mobility, but what I am saying is that I can understand the design behind it. The real problem behind warlocks if mobility is to remain the same, the inherent lack of control needs to be addressed. We used to have fear, howl of terror, death coil, blood horror, curse of exhaustion (affliction), shadowfury (destruction), axe toss (demonology) which was a great help during Mists in creating and retaining space between us and melee which had, at that point in time, had their mobility drastically increased to compensate for the inherent power ranged classes had. When the cuts happened, Warlock lost a huge amount of our control, but melee didn’t lose their mobility upgrades which is why you see melee being so dominant in PvP.

Burning Rush is a problem, simply cause it’s basically unusable in PvP and there’s a large health sacrifice attached to it which no other class has. But it’s also got no cooldown and no duration, so in that regard I feel it’s relatively balanced.

In regards to interrupts, lol. With Imp, Felhunter, and Succubus being pretty much the same in relative power there’s not a huge reason to not use the Felhunter, the only place I can see the problem is with Demonology because you just always use Felguard.

But the fact that it’s connected to our demon makes it not only unique but really powerful with the fact that we can be unable to act but still use our interrupt. No other class has that capability and the cooldown for Spell Lock is actually not that bad.

death knight - 15 seconds
demon hunter - 15 seconds
balance druid - 1 minute, aoe silence
feral/guardian druid - 15 seconds
restoration druid - no interrupt
beast mastery/marksmanship hunter - 24 seconds
suvival hunter - 15 seconds
mage - 24 seconds
brewmaster/windwalker monk - 15 seconds
mistweaver monk - no interrupt
holy paladin - no interrupt
retribution/protection paladin - 15 seconds
discipline/holy priest - no interrupt
shadow priest - 45 second silence
rogue - 15 seconds
shaman - 12 seconds
warlock - 24 seconds from pet
warrior - 15 seconds

The only classes/specs that have shorter interrupt cds then us are melee or shamans who have a large amount of utility in general anyway.

I don’t see a problem with the interrupt, I just think we should have howl of terror and death coil back baseline and the talent row that mortal coil is currently on should be reworked to empower one of our curses similar to the talent that empowers our curse of tongues.

But that’s just me.

2 Likes
3

What about soloing Torghast as a warlock? Planning on doing it with the felhunter? I’m not. I’ll be using the void walker… so no interrupts are available.

All I’ve asked for is a couple of changes to make warlocks slightly more mobile alongside a baseline interrupt, which every other dps class has (including other dps pet classes).

Burning Rush - make it baseline in its current form, but add a talent to make it function like a short sprint, 2 charges, 30 sec recharge.

Gateway - make it baseline in its current form (useful in group situations or when you can pre-plan a safe place for it), but add a talent to allow it to function as a solo gap closer, similar to heroic leap. This would be useful in world pvp or in solo content if you need space or an extra few seconds to resummon your demon. (Hell, in the same situation, a hunter can disengage, tar trap/freezing trap/binding shot and resummon, a mage can frost nova, blink, Blizzard and resummon… we just sit there.)

I also suggested putting those two talents on the same row so we can’t have both at the same time.

Asking for a bit more personal utility isn’t a lot, especially when we’re the only class who lacks a couple of very basic abilities that every other class has. I haven’t mained my warlock in years, despite how much I love the class. After playing other ranged dps I’ve found others that fill those empty spots, but I’d come back to my lock in a heartbeat with a few small changes.

4

I don’t mind our interrupt tied to the felhunter but demo locks urgently need some similar ability for pve. Felguard not having a pure spell interrupt is just sloppy design.

As far as mobility goes, burning rush and demon skin need to be in different rows. As a matter of fact, burning rush should exchange places with darkfury.

5

If the felhunter could tank like the voidwalker/felguard (neither of which is even a good tank, compared to hunter pets tbh) I wouldnt mind it so much. Solo content - visions, torghast, overworld questing, etc. - require a tanking pet, and that means voidwalker/felguard, which means no interrupt, no CC, no cleanse, no purge.

TBH I love the felhunter and back in vanilla days would use it over the voidwalker because it actually seemed able to hold aggro back then. Now even my voidwalker has a hard time keeping threat, especially if I’m destruction where I’ll be pulling from him every other spellcast.

Hunters have so much utility tied to their pets and such a huge variety, but we seem to be eternally stuck using the same pets all the time. Is there any reason the felhunter SHOULDNT be able to tank as well as the voidwalker?

6

Alternately, what about making Burning Rush baseline, and instead of making it consume health, have it consume shard fragments? I’d be fine with that, since it would only be needed for small bursts of speed, and you’d have to weigh out if you’re willing to sacrifice resources for it.

I still say we need a baseline interrupt. Every other class has one, and it’s not tied to any other pets utility. Leave the felhunter with devour magic, and that allows every warlock spec to have an interrupt, regardless of the demon they choose to use.

7

All of these sounds like good suggestions, and like most players I have thought or asked these same questions or had the same answers.
Many times I am just not seeing the developer’s logic by the choices they are making.

For Demo, Felguard has to serve as a tank and an interrupt because he is a huge part of Demo dps. The idea that Felguard is just a dps pet is illogical when the Felguard is such a central part of Demo. If he is the ultimate pet summon for the master summoner, he needs to fit those roles. I think it would be more interesting, if Demo had a baseline interrupt making it a little more unique to the other two specs. This would also need to share the same cooldown as felhunter, but would add a little more flavor. Is this a bad idea because it interferes with dps too much?

Talent trees I think need to be looked at a little more. Mobility vs defensive doesn’t really work in our talent tree when most of the time we pick the mobility (i.e. burning rush) just because warlocks are so immobile. Maybe more keep away options are the answer or baseline burning rush or move it to a row where the choices is more meaningful. Right now many choices in our talent tree are still too much of must pick X talent. I personally hate having to burn so much health in mythic plus just to keep up with teammates in “timed” keystone runs.

I am really glad Blizzard is trying to add new functionally with old abilities for things like mythics. A place where warlocks have been good on dps but lacking in utility. Hopefully smart curses work well though or macros and too many different curses will cause some problems. We will see just how useful they are in the long run. I think mobility does need to be considered though as well for Mythic+ and PVP when we don’t have the setup time.

Pets desperately need to be looked at this point. We have been running the same pets for 15 years minus or plus a few abilities. Maybe a rethinking of warlock pets as an entire paradigm shift to the more modern needs of the newer game modes. Pets as Aoe vs single vs cleave serving dps assistance? Or are pets really great as the utility part of warlock? Maybe a more critical look at what exact utility the pet is supposed to bring? Maybe, all pets need is fresh coat of paint? A newer appearance? It just seems to me that pets could use a little love, since I have used the same ones for so long.

Anyway, my two cents and if you took the time to read my post, Thank you.

1 Like
8

Does anyone else think that homogenisation isn’t that big of an issue. My favourite period of class design was in MoP, an expansion where the classes were the most similar in what they could do, only really differing in how they did it.

I do see the benefit of having each class act like a piece of the puzzle in classic but i don’t see any value in doing this in-between garbage where we remain somewhat homogeneous. Either go one way or the other.

Like seriously ever since WoD where they wanted to start pruning abilities because they didn’t like homogenisation I have felt like the classes have just gotten less and less fun to play and i don’t feel any benefit from being less homogeneous or anymore like a warlock.
The fight against homogenisation feels like it has only made the game worse.

2 Likes
9

Burning Rush should just be on cooldown, let it do 4% of current health last 15 seconds, 45 sec cooldown.

Interrupt needs to be looked at, Demo if Axe toss doesn’t stun let it interrupt.

Who also remembers when Felhunter could detect stealth, Warlocks where great against rogues and feral Druids , it was our niche counter why did they ever remove it?, rogues have so much kicks and stuns, same with feral would be good to have something to counter their insane openers, mobility and re stealth.

Gotta agree I love MoP, every class was great just different ways in doing things, MoP early WoD was the best time for me, I truely loved my Lock.

Now I’m more just playing Lock not for enjoyment more so I’ve invested 15 years into one character. Literally half my life on this earth I’ve put into my Lock.

10

I kinda like how the ability is designed. I can use it when i need to use it but it has a consequence to balance out the amount of freedom i have with it. A cd would just turn it into another sprint ability.
It also allows me to help healers get top parses :slight_smile:

11

On paper it’s great in practice it isn’t, especially in high end raiding and M+.

I’d keep it how it is if it wasn’t a talent choice with Demon Skin and Dark Pact…

If it was baseline I’d agree with you 100%

1 Like
12

I use it all the time in those environments. Like unless mass aoe damage is going out i don’t see much of a downside to using it to avoid mechanics if the raids HP is stable. There are plenty of moments where the damage caused by it is inconsequential.
It does suck that it is on the same tier as Demon Skin and Dark Pact but i don’t really see how this is relevant to the functionality of the ability. I’d rather a unique ability i have complete control over than a sprint with a low cooldown and small negative quirk.

13

But in most Mythic Nylotha bosses, theirs consistent dps heading out, Wrathion easier of the bosses, Shadhar and Hivemind come to mind instantly, where raid wide damage is consistent. I’ve even read Xanesh and Ra-den is even worse… although I’m just about to prog Xanesh tonight fingers crossed I’ll be 6/12 Mythic.

Warlocks are the only class that has mobility that has to be talented into with a drawback… doesn’t seem fair.

14

Burning Rush was great in MoP because of a few reasons.

One, shields absorbed the damage, so Soul Leech shield was great for extending the effective duration.

Two, Destro locks had Ember Tap, which was a solid self heal in exchange for resources, limiting its functionality in combat but greatlt increasing out of combat utility.

Three, iirc it did less self damage, making it less punishing and more useful.

Four, it still felt balanced. For short distances many other classes were still faster than locks. Mid range, locks pulled ahead of several but were still caught by some of the faster classes, like Rogues. Long distances locks started to win, but was still relatively close and required extra resource usage. Very long distances and the warlock would die from being sneezed on. And in all cases, mounts outran the warlock easy.

All of these points have been nerfed. Shields no longer absorbs, warlocks no longer have solid healing cooldowns, the damage was increased, and indirectly the distance locks could cover quickly was greatly reduced while other classes are just as fast, if not faster.

As a result Burning Rush is now terrible with no real good use for it, as the inherent risks far outweigh the rewards. There is also no more interaction with it, nothing helps mitigate the downside and extend the benefits, which makes it boring as well.

Burning Rush might as well be the mascot of warlocks, tbh. Something that wasn’t broken “fixed” in a horrible way and getting worse as time goes on.

3 Likes
15

I haven’t had the same issue as you in my raids, there is constant aoe damge going out but for the most part, the raid is averaging at least 80% hp. I tend to only use it for 1-2 seconds at most as well so when i say the damage is negligible, i mean unless the entire raid is at 40% hp me taking 8% of my Hp to safely avoid a mechanic due is really nice.

It’s lame, but i’m not arguing about that. I’m arguing against turning into a:
45 second cooldown 15 second sprint which costs 4% hp to cast.

I would much prefer an on demand movement speed boost i can use multiple times for 1-2 seconds over a minute when it comes to raiding. I really do think that it not being on a CD makes the ability useful.

1 Like
16

All I can say the amount of times burning rush got me killed in shadhar is ridiculous, i eventually just specd into demon skin and I couldn’t use gate I asked for freedom or the monk speed and we got it down in 2 pulls…

Short bursts aren’t needed at all in Mythic really, that’s the problem, Wrathion never used it, Maut not needed, Skitra not needed, Shadhar you can literally walk out of his breathe attack, not needed, Hivemind not needed. Even High M+ not really needed. Heck 17+ Keys warlocks in general not needed.

If they start designing content where short movements are needed I’d agree but so far the drawback is not worth it.

17

It helps with positioning mistakes, that’s why i like it. I’m progression through Shad at the moment and typically i’m not that close to the boss during P1. If i’m in the middle of the breath i have a significantly more distance to travel than if i was close, burning rush helps with that a lot. If it is P3 then yeah i’m not going to use it but otherwise this ability has saved my life many times due to being slightly slow on reaction times.
I seem to have a completely different experience to you with it. The only time i’ve died to burning rush when i forgot to turn it off doing a n’zoth kill.

I don’t know about you but i’ve found that when i specced into demon skin and we were skipping past trash with the pillar bosses i felt like it would have been useful to catch up with. I do use demon skin for M+ though.

18

Tip, on Shadhar you can still walk out of his breathe even if it’s on focus on you. I can confirm you literally can strafe out of it, even with how slow our movement speed is I’ve never been hit by it.

And with Demon Skin, it just helps the healers out even more with our passive shield especially with the large consistent dps going out. But each to their own, you do what you think is best.

I just see Demon Skin as our unofficial 2nd defensive since we only have a crap unending resolve that’s 40% for only 8 seconds… 3 min cooldown :neutral_face:

Pepino-Barthilas is my Warlock ilvl 478 in PvE, 477 in PvP, been a Lock since Nov 04.

1 Like
19

Depends on the boss really. I do find M+ boss mechanics easy enough to avoid but Mythic raids i felt that i’m so often at the skin of my teeth that i’d rather just take the 4-8% damage to avoid it safely. Especially since you never know when the corruption slow effect is going to get you.
I kinda view it based on what is most likely to get me killed. Is it the healers failing or me failing.

Unending resolve really is a lame defensive CD.

1 Like
20

I’d be cool with low mobility if i had options. which i don’t