auto 700 dmg oblit 200 dmg…
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He’s hitting 3.5k Oblits with KM procs.
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At 4:50 he is showing the damage numbers.
Melee is around 360 damage.
Obliterate is around 700.
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For crying out loud there is no 2h playstyle unless your experience is limited to MoP and WoD. And in fact in these 2 expansions DW was the weapon set to get a playstyle change and people didn’t like it because it removed part of the spec.
In Wrath 2h and DW played the same. In Cata with DW you could play masterfrost though you had to be a perfect player for a very small damage increase, or just play the spec normally. In Legion it went back to this normal playstyle and it has continued to now and into Shadowlands but BoS is a thing and not everyone likes it.
He was critting for around 2.4k KM obliterates. So that’s 1.2k normal obliterate hits before armor. Armor is around 30% so it would be 840 damage after armor. KM is so important going into SL and due to DW, obliterate damage will be balanced around KM procs. So if DW gets a massive amount of procs, that pushes the base obliterate damage down so that KM procced Obliterates don’t get out of hand which would in term nerf 2h and then we see what was going on in MoP and WoD where buffs or nerfs to anything but MotFW or ToT which ToT was combined with MotFW, is you buff one set that doesn’t need buffed, or nerf something that is behind and balance becomes a nightmare. And this was with passive trying to balance it out and these passive s only really made it so that you could only buff obliterate and frost strike to a certain point before they became too strong so you would then have to go into other spells which DW just took advantage of because most of the spells are frost based.
This is the exact reason why they removed 2h. Mechanically it is inferior to DW and always has been and they are adding more incentives to be DW due to KM.
This isn’t an easy fix. Say they did bring back MotFW. 50% increased obliterate damage. So 1.2k turns to 1800 base, then you do the armor calculation which would be 1260 normal hits. Crits would be 2520, and 3600 KM.
This is before calculating in Razorice, which is applied after mastery. So any mastery that DW gets increases KM obliterates, and then it’s increased further with Razorice so that 50% increase results in basically no fix to the issue.
This is just basic stuff and really this thread is meant to deceive, like it’s only 2h that is doing such low obliterate numbers (which it isn’t because you can look at the combat logs he kept showing) and DW and 2h numbers before all the extra stuff, are almost identical, so if 2h was hitting that low, so would DW.
Are you saying people played DW in wrath and cata? Lol
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The 200s you’re seeing are Inexorable Assault. Seems like it might be coded to register first and that may be why it pops up before the Obliterate damage.
The autos are in the 3-400 range. Autos are always white text damage, never yellow.
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Why do you insist on reigning on everyone’s parade every single time 2h is mentioned. Everyone clearly wants it to happen, let us hope blizzard fixes it to be competitive with dw
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I wouldnt get blown out over numbers just yet. Alpha is just winding down and tradionally Alpha is putting mechanics & systems into place while Beta is the numbers and polish. … tradionally.
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Because she’s not wrong. There’s no difference in play style between 2h and DW now just like there isn’t one for Single-Minded Fury vs. Titan’s Grip or DW vs 2h Windwalker. Asking for a different playstyle is asking for a balance nightmare.
The only thing that really needs to happen is KM procs being from main-hand auto crits only with 2H having an extra ~30-40% chance due to attack speed. Numbers and tuning can be adjusted from there but that’d equalize the two and shift power away from the spec being based on KM procs.
Or they could just swap it to a set PPM without any secondary scaling and call it a day.
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Yes, they did. Because the problems that are in SL were also in Wrath and Cata, if 2h was oh so superior to DW then why did they have to create MotFW? Hmmmm I wonder.
The problem is you guys think pointing as issues is reigning on your parade. What do you mean by happen? Technically it’s available in SL so it’s going to “happen”. But you don’t actually mean happen, you mean be the best don’t you, even though it’s just flat out mechanically weaker and always has been.
Or take it off of auto attacks completely and put it on abilities. FF ticks is a nice choice, or button presses which stay constant no matter the weapon set unless one has so much more haste that it’s even noticeable. The downside with it being on FF is in pvp with dispels though but FF on multiple mobs can’t all be dispelled.
That would totally normalize if not completely equalize the entire thing. There is no reason why it has to stay on auto attacks which is the root cause of the difference. There is no band aid work trying to put a higher % on this weapon, which with it being on auto attack crits making the disparity even larger, no having to scale damage higher for one weapon because it’s mechanically behind. Then you can remove Icy Talons as a talent because it’s a shadow of its former self anyways, and 2h can pick up horn of winter instead of runic attenuation, or murderous efficiency. Doesn’t have to take Frozen pulse either, or the auto attacks apply a shield.
The next issue is runes, and if they want to keep DW the primary focus of frost then they don’t have to do anything because technically, depending on the strength of other combinations, they would have to make a 2h rune for every combination. Runeforges use the enchanting system which only allows 1 enchant per weapon so to apply 2 runeforges to 2h weapons could not even be possible due to them having to tweak the enchanting system which could possibly lead to TG fury warriors to have 4 enchants, arms having 2, ret having 2 and possibly extending to staves for casters.
You’re right I want it for the aesthetic. If one has to go I would say adios to dw
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Seems an easy fix to the runeforge is put a 2h restriction on a combined rune of razor ice and fallen crusader.
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It’s getting to the point where I’m just going to outright start ignoring Kalliste. They never bring anything to the argument other than rhetoric and constantly craps all over people who have a different mindset.
Not to mention, they want to act all knowing, but have zero keys, zero raid kills, zero AOTC achieves, zero rating, zero rating achieves…Like I’m not the best at playing DK or theorycrafting, but I’m damn sure going to trust Alpha/Beta testing cutting edge players over what some forum troll with zero exp is spouting.
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Welcome to the club.
The queen of “look at all my evidence” and posts none.
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Then just do it, you don’t have to announce it like you are looking for validation like you are doing a good job. Oh and this zero player has been confirmed by the people on the alpha and beta.
Not to mention stated a solution to the km proc problem that completely separates it from auto attacks.
Also nice ad hom, attacking the person instead of the argument. Why is that? Want to get your shot in while absolutely achieving nothing in the process other than showing how petty you are?
Why is it, that the dk forums, is full of people that like to follow me around to talk trash just to “ignore me” while at the same time parroting other people’s arguments that also failed. I find it absolutely hilarious.
Where is me crapping all over other people? Are you saying that because I disagree, or point out what the OP is trying to do in where he or she is purposefully trying to mislead people by wording the title in such a way to make the issue exclusive to 2h when 2h and DW are almost identical in ability base damage. The person in the video even said it, and showed his combat logs which just showed the OP to be wrong and you don’t even need to get out of either dk starting zone to see “Obliterate 2400 (critical)” or do some basic elementary math to find what that base number would be.
So tell me, how does doing anything you listed teach me how to read a combat log or do basic math? The only thing it tells anyone is someone knows what to do with their class in those environments. When azmon craps on forum people it’s usually people talking about the raid encounter that they haven’t done. In case you haven’t noticed, I haven’t done that and just talked about the class. You think it’s some kind of argument though it’s a fallacy which leads to illogical arguments afterwards.
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That’s your side, thanks. If you can’t do math or look at what was trying to be used here as evidence then the problem lies with you. Did the video show Obliterate hitting for less than an auto attack? No, it didn’t.
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I, for one, do agree with Kelliste’s points. 2h really does need something. MotFW needs to be good enough to compete with a missing runeforge. Considering the playstyle between DW and 2h is marginally different due to the following differences:
KM procs are much more valuable for 2H than DW, obviously thanks to the fast striking nature of 1H weapons. 2h have lower AA thans DW ever will so there needs to be some compensation for that. Thankfully, MotFW (used to) give 50% more Obliterate Damage as well as 35% to ALL melee attacks (yes, including Obliterate itself). This was the reason why Obliterate hit like a truck as a 2h Frost Dk.
You can’t just put 2 runeforging onto 2h because considering runeforging is an enchantment hardcoded into the game. It’s just not feasible to make an exception like this. If Dks can have 2 enchantments, so can fury warriors which Kelliste has pointed out. Putting a passive that is just as good as a runeforge is the most feasible way to do this.
I think what Kelliste was trying to say was you can play your Dk as you want. You can go 2h if you so choose. But don’t be surprised to be declined by groups when 2h obviously lags behind because it doesn’t have the passives (like MotFW) to support this playstyle.
Don’t get me wrong. I love 2h Frost. I love the idea of it. Arthas was a 2h Frost. Bolvar was a 2h Frost. But as of right now for a “cosmetic” purpose of 2h, since 2h has less AA which means less KM proc which means a DPS loss without compensation, DW is far superior at the moment.
I am not sure if it always have been this way since MoP and WoD. I always view them as two separate mini-specs which is, sure, nightmare to balance but it was a thing that many people loved and enjoyed.
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I don’t see why Blizzard cannot come up with a solution to remedy this problem. A unique runeforge is probably the simplest solution, and it doesn’t even have to combine two known enchants to work. These developers have all the resources they need to fix 2 handed frost, and it shouldn’t be a controversy to expect them to do just that.
P.s. I’ve already ignored Kalliste. They bring nothing constructive to the thread, argue in bad faith, and they took a big L when 2 handed frost returned, despite their pages upon pages on why it wasn’t happening.
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