You would think that this week with bursting that Spriests time to shine with Md. My tank did a 15 EB and the spriest, American did not one MD the entire run
Edit: 14 on my tank. H priest doing 2k dps. and my pally tank is doing more dispels then the hpriest
Not defending the SPriest lol
But I have seen that Pug priests have been very selective about when they use their MD since they nerfed it to 2 min CD.
Still doesnt excuse that fact that he didnt use it even once lol
My main and only beef with pugs on bursting is that they dont understand how disc works lol My damage is my main healing. They kill and just sit with 7-8 stacks and i have nothing to attack, just spamming Flash light and praying to the old gods that we live (given my MD is on CD lol )
Having played MD this week the increased cast time and 2 minute cd have really hurt it. It’s so hard to judge when to use because sometimes 6 stacks is too much to heal sometimes it isn’t, sometimes you MD a 6 and in a few packs time there’s a 10. It’s awful.
The first pull of the key is maybe a no brained, the rest though? It’s a mess.
I’ve heard a few Priests claim this as well.
The thing that drives me nuts is when the group survives 7-8 stacks with personals and heals from the priest, and then they think they can survive that many stacks every time and just go ham. Nothing worse than seeing that Warrior or Hunter that’s unable to hold back for 1-2 globals and reset stacks +3
I died to 10 stack mid cast of mass.
Super annoying change
At 2 Minutes MD being instant is probably the way to go.
I understand why at 30 seconds it had a cast time. I think at 2 Minutes, it would be a fine power boost to make it instant like revival.
I foresee a lot of issues of a targeted area spell being both instant cast and with a cooldown long enough to prevent abuse.
We have a similar spell that follows this issue as well, it’s called Shadow Crash.
Imagine if you will a scenario where you want to Mass Dispel a group of people and before you had the chance to realize it, a light fixture or beam above you or a lamppost or fence to the side of you or just a plain old miss click can have you instantly firing off a Mass Dispel with a 2 minute cooldown off to some unknown area and leaving you with a cooldown and nothing gained from it.
They really need to address the long cooldown on such a niche and unique utility spell. A lengthy cooldown is an absurd way to balance it because of how easy it is to miss and waste it altogether.
I can’t think of any other target area utility spell that can be so punishing.
I swear the ones making the decision to implement these knee jerk reaction changes for Priest really do not understand or even care how the game functions and how much they consistently make Priest spells walk the line between Overpowered and Absolutely Useless.
I have trouble understanding the issue.
Youcan misstarget it with a cast time just as much. You could argue even, the cast time makes it more prone to misstargets in tight situations because you know you have a cast time as well and this needs to go out ASAP. You get the targeting circle with or without cast time.
Either way, making it a large area around the priest would work aswell.
But honestly, even tho it happens sometimes, that you misstarget on a branche and waste an ability, it feels incredibly bad which let’s you remember those moments more vividly in between the 100 times it targeted just fine.
I am not playing down the bad camera and ceiling interaction etc., but a ground targeted spell with a slow projectile is the problem of shadow crash and not having roling charges/CDR for the spell. Not the janky camera.
But I agree. It would still be a concern that you can wipe to bursting because you MD a branch of somewhere instead of the group. What would be your proposed solution?
All I can think of is using the priest as center instead of a targeting circle (as MD is a purge and dispell). But that would warrant the cast time in my opinion, as you can fumble the key easily again.
Since its inception, Mass Dispel having a cast time allowed you to cancel the cast. You can fake cast.
You can act like your prepping to instantly remove immunity from Pally and Mage and maybe bait them into thinking you used it prematurely which might incentivize them to use their immunity only for you to cast Mass Dispel for real.
Point is, with a cast time, you have a level of flexibility to cancel a misplaced targeted area or rather… it forces you to target a correct area as you have a split second to cancel if you caught the targeting circle to not be placed exactly where you meant it to be placed.
With Shadow Crash, it has multiple issues.
Quite frankly, for an AOE spell… I honestly think it should have a cast time. It’s crazy that you have instant cast AOE spells. Those are supposed to be a big deal and that means it should come at a cost of having to spent time casting it.
I would much rather have access to a spell with a short cooldown but with a cast time for AOE.
Mass Dispel had what? A 15 second cooldown for the majority of its run? And a huge mana cost?
I honestly don’t see why we can’t have that again. It’s simple in nature and correctly designed to prevent abuse with a short cooldown and high cost association.
Tl;dr
Our targeting circle spells should always have a cast time, but they should have a short cooldown and cost a lot of resources be it mana or insanity (preferably mana). Is the direction I would attempt to make work.
With a 2 minute cooldown, there’s no point in using Mass Dispel at 6 stacks or fewer, unless those stacks have been extended over a long period due to refreshing right before they fall off. It’s reserved for those occasions where your entire group would absolutely wipe without it, not even for a case where 1 or 2 people will die.
Especially when timers are more generous this season and the DPS have the potential to generate high stacks on many occasions throughout the dungeon.
In pugs, DPS simply don’t care if they get high stacks most of the time.
I think with the cd meaning priests don’t trivialize bursting anymore shadow is less appealing, even during bursting weeks. Our damage is pretty mid and our utility otherwise is pretty weak in m+.
That said i still got some invites and knocked out a 25 fall as shadow, i just think my score and ilvl played more of a role in that than anyone thinking they had to have an spriest for bursting.
My shadow priest out sustains havoc DHs. So I’d say that’s a solid strength of shadow. And uptime on 21% DR. We have good defensives.
Think I did 29 or 39k hps in an Everbloom with leech talent once.
Are you sure about that?
But we’re not stacking vers like the best Mythic+ classes so they have 15%+ passive mitigation purely from that.
If you’re out-sustaining havoc dhs on the regular you either vastly out gear them or they are doing something very, very wrong. There is lots of publicly available data to support them handily doing more dps in a m+ setting than shadow, you don’t have to take my word for it.
I think they meant in terms of HPS, which if you’re giving up VE for the leech talent and looking at over a whole run you might be correct.
However when it actually matters, EG during periods of high incoming group damage, a DH is going to blow you out of the water with both natural tankiness and sustained HPS from leech.
Watch this guy’s health bar largely not move throughout the entire last 2 minutes of a +30 iridikron, meanwhile everyone else is basically a yoyo.
I play both.
I also run voidform with screams and dp talents so my healing through vamp/dp are a lot higher than the wings build.
DH will out sustain on pure single target probably since shadow leech is only scaling linearly with targets. But eye beam fel dev flat healing and flat blade dance bubble is strong regardless.
Talented desperate prayer healing is actually really good too and indirectly squeezes more out of mental fortitude.
My health is noticably more stable whenever mass aoe goes out compared to others. Just takes a single flash heal and fade. It feels fantastic.
I only experimented with leech over vamp embrace when in groups that had other self sufficient DPS already so I tried the selfish option and it felt good. I still run vamp embrace, especially for rough heal check weeks and now that I’m always running mental fortitude passive leech loses a lot of value.
I watched the clip but that doesn’t seem like a great example.
He had cen ward on him from the druid so by default was getting the brunt of the healers healing. He also popped blur for that. He negates the first tic with blade dance most likely but also everyone else yo yo’d the same as him except the mage who probably altered time instead of popping a DR. The Aug was as stable as the DH.
DH only gets 20% leech and only in their limited meta window with the normal build. Let’s say he had 25% leech, if the hit did 1/3 of his health, in order to immediately heal that back from leech he would need to be doing like 1.33 million damage in one second or something.
He was also just as fragile as the rest during the pulsing aoe’s. It’s a hard example because the resto druid was just pumping the whole time. Something like EB council boss would be better to see who’s truly sustainable. Not burst damage.
But comparing my dh runs to my shadow runs, I’d say they’re extremely comparable. And I run shattered destiny build so I have even more sustain than the normal build
The main issue with high keys in M+ is that some specs are just god tier with survivability and others literally have nothing. Bosses start slamming out 800k+ unmitigated AOEs and when you’re on a +30 you’ll basically be eating over 1mil on these bosses. Some specs just flat out get one shot while others cruise control through everything.
DHs for example have insane survivability on-top of being #1 in damage. Then you get Hunters, Enh Shamans, etc. that’ll get full hp’d by everything.
Mage has absolutely zero right to have access to the number of defensives it has, with the mobility and damage that it has.
Also outlaw rogue running 40% natural versatility and still doing great damage…
I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say here—is it like Ellipsis says that spriest has more leech potential than dh? Sustain as in “can heal themselves” vs sustained dps I guess?
If so that might be true, but I don’t think it’s all that valuable. In really high keys as someone else said the danger is more about being one shot than topping yourself off. I play a lot of disc too, and anecdotally I don’t really notice an spriest whether they take leech or ve—it doesn’t mean I can hold mindbender during a big healing check, for example.
I still have fun with shadow, but our utility is far below where it was at last season, when md was arguably op. I think we could use some kind of a utility bump. I think shadow utility feels amazingly fun, so it would be cool if ve was more impactful. Right now it feels especially weak if you don’t like it up with our damage cds, but as a dps I also don’t want to/can’t hold my dps cds for a healing check.
The rest of our toolkit is just not very compelling is all I am trying to say. We have a long cd on our kick (silence) and aoe stop, and our dps isn’t mind blowing. Like I said I still have fun on shadow, but even if I played a non-priest healer I don’t think I’d bring an spriest to a push key unless it was a buddy or their io suggested they were insane (like a 3600 player joining me in a 25 or something).