The shado-pan is an organization that basically takes children into their organization with the single purpose to defend the wall.
They aren’t an organization interested in defending the planet or sending “their best” into matters that don’t matter to them.
Making it into a hero spec seems to really ignore this fact. I think making Blademaster a hero spec is a better idea, the reason why is cause hero specs are meant to basically be inspired by two specs and the in-between while also highlighting a “hero”
A Blademaster is not only a martial Master but an individual that uses tools like oil to set their blades on fire. Does that not sound like the mix of a brewmaster and a windwalker monk.
This means a monk would get two options. One that further focuses on Spirit (Chi) by their commitment to the Celestials or the other that leans more to "ninja/samurai " tools since subtlety rogue is being pushed more into a void melee spec than the ninja it was in earlier versions.
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It would if we actually used our weapons…
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Good thing a Marksman hunter isn’t a Dark Ranger.
A war within is introducing these hero specs
They aren’t specs though. They are merely talents that augment what we already have. It’s a substitute for adding more rows to the existing trees. I think people are getting too excited over the idea that these talents are going to dramatically change things up and will be disappointed in the end.
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It still is flavor.
It can make a boomkin go from trent focused to more celestial focused.
It will make moon bears or druid of the Claw
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I agree it could add flavor. I just know how this community likes to get their hopes up and get all these ideas in their head and when the devs don’t make it happen they get all outraged.
I disagree.
Shado-pan might be the “edge” the monk is missing for some people. I think the flavor of being the elite of the elite works very well, I just want to see what it actually means in terms of gameplay.
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It will probably just end up being things like bonedust brew or tigers eye brew instead of something new/interesting
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No your right it does not make sense and I doubt Blizzard cares like Monks are just an afterthought nowadays.
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The numbers will be run, and if you’re chasing rio or CE or Glad, you’ll run the spec with the best numbers.
For everyone else it will be flavor. I hope it’s good flavor at least.
With Delves being an endgame solo content, I will be glad to be suboptimal in favor of RP. Though I still like Arenas so I might have to spec optimally for those.
Dont care Shado-Pan are cool and i want to spec as one
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Shado-Pan is the closest organization we have like yakuza so I’m down
I think people are reading into this new system too much. If you rp, your character can still be whatever you wan at it to be. You could just use the hero specs to enhance that.
If you don’t. I still don’t think there’s anything to worry about. I feel the names will only show if someone looks at your talents.
This what I assume as well.
Hmm. I am not very interested in the naming, but it can be justified I think due to time. I guess what would be best is giving more story that better explains the naming.
Stay vocal. Because you’re right.
It can be justified but only via ret-cons and ignoring their own lore, which Blizzard has done before but shouldn’t be a norm.
Technically, the Monks from Pandaria are from the Temple of the White Tiger. Shado-Pan is essentially a Rogue group. In fact, Lorewalkers are closer to Monks than some of the other factions and yet we’re still getting a “Master of Harmony” instead. Shado-Pan screams “pet project” mixed with “minimum viable product”.
Here is another post I did earlier (go to the second section specifically about Shado-Pan being an error to attribute to Monk).
Shortened link, no embed
I also agree with trying to identify themes of Monk, and have been saying that for some time. There’s a lack of conducive clarity around “What even is this class” that the back-and-forth of failing to define the class fantasy is one of the most frustrating elements. From zookeepers to wind wizards to fists of fury to jk nobody likes channeling that, it’s not really clear what defines the class.
To me, the focus are the themes of Monk, which are Martial Arts, Celestial Blessings, and Chi Magic. I think the hero talents try to point to that, but expose their own failure in knowing their own game design.
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Shado-pan as an organization is interesting.
Taran-zhu is in the monk class hall as a windwalker.
There is a member in the rogue class hall as well.
Shado-pan are as I understand sort of an elite group but they are essentially monks more specialized in assassination. A lot of hero specs are named after race specific groups, and while those are certainly expanding class fantasy they also bring some counterpoints to it.
Once we can get more feedback and see what they do, we may have more ground to work with.
The linked post touches on that? I’ll move here…
The biggest and most difficult thing for me to overcome is that Shado-Pan makes me think of their cast of characters first and foremost. Who are “bearly” Monks… (ok, sorry–last one, I promise). The Shado-Pan are a group of Warriors, Rogues, Hunters, and the occasional Monk or Clerical Worker.
Taran Zhu always seemed closer to a Warrior in the Pandaria story. He was definitively mutated back to Monk for Legion, but his key skill is seeming distinctly borrowed from another “non-hero” class: Taran Zhu will occasionally perform a sneak attack, stunning all nearby enemies and increasing the damage that they take for 12 seconds. Despite calling him a Monk, he still strongly ties to Warrior through use of his polearm, and Rogue through his use of shadows, deception, and sneakery.
But he’s not even the biggest offender. Taoshi is straight up a Subtelty Rogue, being the Shado-Pan’s primary operative and Taran Zhu’s #2. There is no handwaving this one away, pointing at the “descriptors” for the champion definition. Want another one? Despite being a minor character, Nurong is a Hunter. And the list goes on that the Shado-Pan are not the order of Monks from Pandaria from the Temple of the White Tiger.
That’s before I even ask why is there a differentiation here from Lorewalkers and Masters of Harmony. Will Conduits of the Celestials truly be Conduits or just Buddies? Do we have any descriptions of how this will personify the motifs (things I’ve played at in prior posts about how current talent trees could and should be meaningfully and logically arranged already)? Or are we all weaving “castles on clouds”, made purely of mist?
All in all, maybe there’s some redeeming gameplay arc with Shado-Pan (in name only) that brings Monk closer to what the boomer Monk crowd has been looking for from the class, a more physically oriented unarmed combat master (“I -am- the weapon”). But because I try to immerse into this virtual world, I cannot look at Monk’s Hero Talent descriptions and think “This was made by someone who loves this game/universe/fantasy.” It really resonates the Minimum Viable Product vibe which has felt like an ongoing class feature, and not an accidental byproduct of “trying something different”.
Feel welcome to check out the links within the post for more detail too. They can always Turbo-Charge a design to make it overpowered for positive feedback. But for me, long-term design value isn’t at the whim of tuning changes. It’s about staying true to your own motifs, aesthetics, and worldbuilding. Which I’m not really seeing that at all here.
Like I said, other hero specs fall into similar issues.
For instance “Sentinel” is just the broad term for the Kaldorei army.
While in game it will be a hunter spec, we have seen sentinel warriors, hunters and rogues.
We don’t know how much the hero talents will affect the spec, but that might be it, give monk a bit of that rogue and warrior spice the shado-pan has. Or it might be blizzard again just tying monks and pandaren together.
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