Serious Question...What about WW Monks Is More Broken than other classes?

What about WW Monk is that more much busted than Fire Mage, Boomkin, Ret Pallys, or Arms warriors?

And no, saying look at the leaderboards is not a reason. I want a specific ability that makes you all cry about us everyday in the forums even though you all know WW will be absolute dog water next patch due to poor scaling.

Update: After looking over peoples thoughts and opinions I have come to the conclusion that WW does too much damage for how much mobility/utility they have. A damage nerf should happen BUT also a buff to our survivability to follow.

We still don’t know if scaling will be that big of an issue due to diminishing returns on stats, but yeah, historically the spec has always scaled poorly outside of Antorus when it was an actual beast.

WW has a lot of damage and extremely high uptime due to its mobility, but are extremely fragile. I’d definitely be OK with a blanket damage nerf it it meant getting better defensives.

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That’s completely incorrect. No one knows anything like that, at all. Plus, even if that were true, it’s not a blank check to be overpowered anyways.

As for what’s strong about Monk, your pressure mostly. You have respectable top tier burst (Not as much as Fire) while boasting significant sustained pressure (not as much as warrior). On top of solid util/cc and mobility.

Well they do similar emergency levels of dps as fire, just spread out over a much longer duration.

For example if a WW pops xuen and images, I can respond with dome and live. However When dome ends and he uses his second set of images and tiger is still rolling we just lose if he’s doing enough dps.

This is much worse for less viable healers than disc or ones that don’t have many CD’s like a Rdruid has literally ironbark and then nothing while the monk pumps while being totally unkitable

My alt is an aff lock right now and even tho I think aff is in a good state, it is ridiculous fighting a WW monk. If he puts his port on top of mine, there’s literally nothing I can do to kite him. Immune to slows doing 3x my damage while i waddle to my gate just for him to dragon kick across the map to me on a 25 second CD LOL

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WWs are actually a good example of what a glass cannon should be. They’re just a small tweak away from being a very balanced spec in my opinion. As I mentioned before, although the pressure is very high, the survivability is very low. Compare that against Mages, Rets, Warriors and even Balance and you will see how they are immortal livelords in comparison.

A bit less damage, a bit more survivability and the class will be in a good spot.

It’s actually a 20s cooldown lmao

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nerf ww dmg im happy.

Do they need their dragon kick buffed from 45 second to 20 second?? uhh probly not. But for the sake of class diversity I don’t mind it. They just do too much damoog

Well, the duration of the kick was reduced by almost the same amount the cooldown was buffed, so there’s that.

rly well it still sends them halfway across tolviron lul

I might have exaggerated a bit, but the duration was definitely nerfed some. It used to have an honor talent for 2 charges though. It’s a very good ability and I prefer it over Roll even, specially since Chi Torpedo is not used in PvP.

The thing with monks is not a single ability at all. Its a combination of all the abilities, along with their Diablo3 style of damage modifiers that they have access to. Here is a copypasta from a tragic thread the other day, by a knowledgeable monk:

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You’re all busted stop looking for justification for your over tuned specs. How about being realistic and admitting your specs are a bit over tuned. The “Theres x amount of other over tuned things.” Argument is getting old or I mean just admit you’re biased and want your spec busted.

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The thing I am concerned about is considering Monks are so squishy and I’m typically running for my life every arena due to being the kill target in most comps I run, without my damage what could I bring to the table? Monks don’t have CC like a rogue or the survivability of many other melee classes so what would make monk a viable pick if we didn’t have amazing pressure besides maybe ROP?

Stumblin does actually summarize it pretty well, but we can’t forget the notion that half of what he listed is also accessible to every single class in the game in the form of Conduits, Covenant abilities and Soulbinds. Weapons of Order is actually pretty insane, but Invoker’s Delight and the Conduits are very average.

I mean, I get WW is a bit overtuned currently, but the fact they’re extremely fragile keeps them in check for the most part. Well, let’s see how Blizzard goes about them in the future, but I really hope they don’t just hammer the damage down and give some defensive capabilities in return. I don’t want to see another repeat of BfA Enhancement lmao.

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Have you tried running a comp with a healer?

You’re right, they should have good damage. Do you really think that the damage that good monks are putting out, both during xuen/clones and even the few seconds they are down… do you think that’s right in line with most everyone?

And RoP is clutch. Paralysis is good, and instant. AoE leg sweep is incredible, esp when paired with another cleave class (warrior, Frost dk, etc.) Kiting abilities are unparalleled, perhaps even better than druid.

A serious question. What makes WW scale poorly compared to other melee? Abilities don’t do damage based on weapon speed anymore, and they are more or less just stat sticks for other melee.

Most abilities deal damage based on % attack power for all melee correct? As well as the secondary stats being on a DR for everyone.

So what makes them scale worse?

They don’t benefit that well from Haste, no mechanic that synergizes with Crit, Mastery scales poorly when it comes to Mastery points per %.

It might not be the case now in Shadowlands since Primary Stats have a huge advantage over Secondary stats and the fact there are diminishing returns on stats at different thresholds. We still don’t know, but it’s a fact the spec has scaled poorly in the past. It’s one of the reasons Versatile was the best corruption for WW in 8.3, because it couldn’t really make use of anything else efficiently.

When all CDs are popped I do a lot of damage and I have one shot dps and healers a couple times, but the damage is similar if not worse than ret pallys or boomkins. Ret pallys have hit 14k crits on my entire team in 3s with ashes and i’ve been hit by a 22k the hunt. There are so many things that should be tuned down and so many classes need to be buffed but all I every see on these forums is just people complaining about a class that has underperformed for years now and had zero people playing it until now.

And for spacetime, WW has historically always scaled poorly for the past 3 expansions or had the worst damage in the game to begin with. It’s not like WW scales terribly, It just WW scales worse than almost every other class. Im no pro but you can look it up or look at previous dps charts from previous xpacks.

People that want WW nerfs just do not make any sense at all, WW is without a doubt in a perfect spot right now. MW needs a buff though.

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Just for the record, I don’t want to see WW gutted. I just saw your post, and linked what i felt to be a comprehensive list of what is making the burst (and seemingly sustained) on the monks so incredible.

If I were to change things about monk, it wouldn’t be about damage so much. I wish disarm did more against a monk. I wish whatever that thing is that makes FoF come up every 12 seconds wasn’t there. I wish also the 70-90% slow they put on wasn’t there.

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