Getting to 1600 or 1800 in PvP isn’t hardcore. Clearing normal or Heroic raids isn’t hardcore. Completing/joining keys +6-9 keys isn’t hardcore.
The game is split in so many layers that if you’re not finding ways to play it, you’re not looking at the right place.
The only thing that seem to have more layers than WoW current’s system is the “dedication tiers” to it. First time i hear someone calling himself a semi-casual (what does that even mean).
but i can’t join a guild because i’m unlikable 
Also, a lot of you love to exaggerate the pug-life.
Don’t bite off more than you can chew… and it’ll be a fine time.
I can count on one hand the bad pugs this expansion so far… and it wasn’t even toxic… it was just a bad time on the key.
Obviously a game issue.
I am not denying that it would be difficult to balance and make work…
all I am saying is right now… the system in place… makes it EXTREMELY difficult for a dps to gear past heroics, unless they get a lucky world boss/lfr/vault/craft a legendary to be able to push them past the 180 mark, to even be CONSIDERED by any mythic group… and even then… maybe on saturday, sunday… no WAY they will get a group during the week
Im sorry but that is simply untrue. I am going to post on all 3 alts who have done nothing but m+ or pug m0s all of which are over 185.
Just make everything a que regardless of difficulty, people will either get better to ensure loot happens. I mean what do people think happened when raid lockouts were different?
It was either reevaluate your PUG or guild strategy and push on. Or whoops, there goes your gear chance for the week. People need that same mindset, +12 kicking your butt? Well reevaluate what went wrong and retry with the next group to push to a higher key. Having issues on any raid tier? Retry.
They can make it happen both ways, people who want queues can get them, and people who want their own group, or pre-made will always go that route. No reason not to just make a dedicated queue.
HAHAHAHA. No.
<= Cata Launch Heroics survivor.
This game is not that hard as to compare yourself to professional or regional or state football players. World of Warcraft is meant to be an easy to pick up game and its mechanics are really not that hard. You can’t point to the ONE SMALL platform of difficult content to say the overall game is hard. You are literally comparing the top 1% or even less to the majority of players of WoW. If you were comparing the very top ranked tier WoW players who are like 0.1% of the WoW community, that would be an apt analogy.
The rest of the community are basically participating in a participation trophy of content; you pay to experience the game not to compete at the top. You pay in measurement of time to be competitive and the game.
People are fooling themselves yet again thinking being good at the game is comparable to being an athlete for national/regional/state leagues. There are suitable “biddy” type teams that allow a platform for casual athletes to play football but it is not in brackets/rankings the way state/regionals are. Get that out of your mindset lol and the audience analogy is the perfect comparison. Because without semi casuals paying the game, WoW is a dead game. Blizzard won’t keep WoW alive just for the 1-5% of the WoW community. If starting tomorrow everyone loses interest in baseball but former baseball players at amateur or national league, the sport dies out and they would demolish the stadium and renovate it for a more proper venue to make revenue off of.
It’s the same exact concept for WoW.
Actually in an effort to not spam, feel free to look up Raaes, Ssaera, and Raees on Zul’jin. All are over 185 (one is 197) and have only done M+ or crafted a legendary. most of their gear outside of the monk is m0.
My guild is the best Local Bar League Softball Team! Champs of the tri-county area! You see Zooks over there? He hit 2 homers! Git gud scrubs. We’re featured in the local diner’s local tv ad during the Eagles.
I will give you a quick scenario…
you hit 60, go buy all your 150 gear from the ah - relatively cheap
go do your 2 intro torghast quests for the 160 and 171 peice - relatively easy.
unless you got lucky with trinket upgrades you are now sitting at roughly 150’ish ilvl… need a few more piece to unlock heroic - easy enough with some world quests.
now lets just say you got super lucky and got every peice you needed in a day… you now have every piece heroic your ilvl is around 170’ish - do LFR, get super lucky and get a piece… still 170ish… now…
you can’t do anything… you wont even be considered for M0 or M+ until saturday/sunday… and even then at 170 ilvl… it’s gonna be a coin toss if you get in or not… most likely no.
so you have no choice but to wait for the next reset, and HOPE you get something from the world boss, HOPE you have something decent from the vault, and HOPE you can get enough ash to craft a legendary to push you over the 180 mark…
otherwise you are going to have to wait till yet ANOTHER reset… before pugs will even LOOK at you…
it’s a broken system right now… that is EXTREMELY punishing on new players…
that’s all I am saying, there is no “magic button” to push to fix it.
but a LFD tool for ATLEAST m0/M1,2 would go a LONG way to help.
lol that has never happened in the history of queues
But when people say they like things from Vanilla/Classic, do the devs ask specifically what they like? Nope. The devs just pick out what THEY like from that era. Then they get mad when players say “This is not what I wanted.”
You know what I loved when I started right before BC? Everything I did moved me forward in some way. If I logged on and killed pigs for an hour? I got leather and cooking mats and exp, all of which actually helped me in the game. That is what I miss about how WoW used to be: Multiple ways to advance in power and move forward into new content.
Ion and his crew brought the grind into Shadowlands but forgot that the grind has to be worthwhile and rewarding in various ways.
You left out you could literally just put a group up for m0s and run your own taking only those who also are only 170 (which apparently is a huge problem and makes up the majority of the playerbase). I know what a wall feels like, and there are several ways to overcome it, but all require effort outside of “queue, get declined, log out”.
edit: and its ok to not be into m+s comfortably the first week you hit level cap. Or even the second. Its called progression and is why there are multiple difficulty levels. You shouldnt be considering m+ at 170 because m0s drops much much more gear and is on par for your gear level.
one more edit: also the renown quests are giving 184 pieces now, and soon will give 190s. Catch up only becomes easier over time. Youlll notice the toons I mentioned also are wearing some rep ivl 200 pieces earnable 100% outside of instanced content. AND you left out you can buy 168 gear and skip the entire normal cycle.
I know I know, another edit: I fully support an m0 queing system. Really not sure why it doesnt exist.
I completely agree, but it’s a pretty BIG wall for a lot of people to even get into a m0… to get to the next ilvl step to where I am, like 185-189 which is basically full m0 gear…
then and only then should you be able to que for M+'s
I am by NO MEANS trying to say you get to que into M+'s a 170 ilvl… that’s just a recipe for disaster… but the way the system is now…
the wall from heroics to mythics is LARGE and PUNISHING…
I just disagree man. It took me 2 seconds on 3 toons to get groups for the m0 weekly the other day, and that gave me a ton of drops AND a 213 raid piece. Timewalking same thing.
M0 you can literally make your own group. I don’t disagree with players there.
Keys I think there’s a problem Can’t make a key for one you don’t have. And the way to delevel it is 100% an abuse and not intended to be that way.
Still Matchmaking is the best solution. Literally it’s how the game moves forward into the next gen of games.
Every argument you’ve seen here against LFD, LFR, and Cross-Server grouping has been debunked by practice. Players arguing for increased difficulty to content that’s widely accessible to the majority of players are literally crying for the game to lose players and subs.
Exclusivity in a video game that’s not based on skill but on gear checks is not smart. Wildstar tried it, it failed. WoW when it launched was the easiest MMORPG on the market. It’s dungeon’s were instanced, death really didn’t have a significant penalty, and almost all the end game content was accessible just by being level 60; or at least there was a clear indication of where to start.
Now? WoW’s team is making content that’s a shell of what used to be. No more wide open zones, no more grinds that felt meaningful, and to boot a mentality about top end is the only game left.
How do you keep up with the pace they clearly set? Make LFD for M+, add a commendation system, and recently played then let players work their way up and build teams through doing content–not before, because that ship has long sailed, but during. It won’t reduce anyone’s experience and will only increase the amount of players playing for longer.
Some fair points there! You’re definitely correct about slow conquest (though it does add up even though unrsnked content) and world bosses. Between my characters I’ve had two get a gear drop since SL launched. Not great but still a chance at 207 gear per week.
I only said what I did because I made an alt with that same intention.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/dreadmaul/cybelin
Just made it to fill the tanking/healing hole that I see especially for lower keys, it’s worked out well though I’m hoping to slowly gear higher.
the m0 weekly is a different animal, people are FAR less picky during that, and you are MUCH more likely to get a group just because people just want to get their weeky done, so you will get people like me, 190 tanks that just carry the group through the content to finish up your weekly.
but during a non mythic week, it’s a totally different animal