Lot of truth here, but also a dilemma. Using Classic as an example, everyone in the player base there know this rule. They know it hard. Group or die, literally. Fall out of existence. Why isn’t it that black and white on retail? Why is it that me, a multi-server first raider of past expansions, a “semi-casual” as coined by the OP, doesn’t want to put forth the effort to find a group or guild to help me on my quest. It’s not laziness. It’s not lack of skill. Not lack of communication. So what is it?
I dare to say it’s more of an exercise in futility. People know a lot better in current content when their time is being wasted, or has the potential to be wasted. People know that every action they take in the current game has a reflection on their reputation. Semi-casuals know this more than anyone. Only precise and knowable actions are worth the salt. That’s why people who would normally happily accept your view, don’t.
Sorry, but what game have you been playing since 2004? At what point do think there was more content?
There is a system in place.
This is the problem with having such a widely diverse player base. No one will agree on systems.
Some players refer to mop/ wod as “the old days” and it honestly feels like they never played or don’t remember vanilla, bc, or wrath.
You do. It’s just that the “slower pace” we currently have means you’ll be getting the equivalent of mythic raid gear for tier 1 come tier 3.
Seriously, you invalidated everything else you said when you put this in.
Are you Ralph?
No. This is a direct consequence of devs having decided to design the entire game around mythic raiding at the expense of other demographics. “Raid or die” is one of those old-timer “RPG elements” devs have decided to yank the game back to vanilla to restore.
They actually could have chosen to design the game to satisfy more than one player demographic. But they didn’t. And now casuals have little to do but chores.
Any point up until Panda I could stay occupied for hours a day without doing a dungeon or raid.
its laughable honestly. and the players that justify this type of behavior love to ramble on about how they dont want to ‘carry’ people, yet demand to only run content if they outgear it to the point of absurdity.
Sounds like you just don’t want to start at the bottom
i dont know if this is true, honestly. wow broke the mmorpg mold by being the first mmorpg that allowed one to level solo all the way to cap. before wow, this NEVER happened. even getting to max level in other mmos required full groups, and it required a hard grind. the open world was dangerous. even basic travel from point a to b was often dangerous in previous mmos.
wow was considered the ‘casual mmo’ for bucking this trend and not only allowing one to level solo, but to do it entirely by questing - no grind required. and once you hit 60, you could gear just by spamming an instanced dungeon or weekly raid? you didnt have to rely on camping an open world raid boss at 3 am or spending millions of gold on rare crafting mats? it was unheard of in the mmo world.
as many have suggested countless times some type of token system would work. Remember Benthic gear? Why not allow that concept to level up gear to say 10 ilvls below “top end” gear?
Maybe you should try being more selective of the people in your group?
And now we’re full circle.
I do remember badges. They were a tier behind and took weeks to get an item. Do YOU remember them? They never dropped 25 man equivalent.
to the right of his name “WoW Classic” reading is pretty hard sometimes tho.
I read it, fam.
If you were to run keys ever in the future, start by friending the players that you find success with. Ignore those who you dislike.
Only a suggestion for those who wish to climb in keys. If you have no interest, that’s fine. Your needs are your own.
Each raid boss dropped 2 badges iirc. My numbers might be off but they definitely did drop badges.
The rewards you could purchase with them werent on par with the best raid gear, but you could absolutely get raid ready by farming them. it was an excellent catch up mechanic for new and returning players, an option for casuals, as well as for filling in slots you were missing from raid drops. It gave folks a tangible goal to work towards - they knew if they ran x dungeons or killed x boss so many times, they would get the item they wanted.
You are correct in that when you neuter content for the hardcore players, you do the same for the masses.
I feel like it’s several groups of people all yelling at each other from different spots of the same sinking boat. There are absolutely ways to engage a multitude of players in a variety of ways. Strangely, they gutted a lot of flexibility/reward that allowed push groups to do what they want, while at the same time telling the more casual players that the way to progress is to get into the very same content they gutted.
The problem is that the community has been forced to take only those characters that hit very specific requirements BECAUSE that’s the only way they can maximize their slim chance at a piece of an upgrade. As a result, being behind in content means you are simply less likely to be accepted, and continue to fall behind. It isn’t your fault as a player who has limited time, and it isn’t the fault of the players who don’t want to waste time.
I love to play my shaman, specifically elemental (for example), but I would never expect a group looking to maximize their chance to clear a key to take me over a hunter. Ever. They shouldn’t, and I’m sure there are a lot of players who feel bad about denying people because of it, just like there are players who feel bad being denied.
It feels to me like the game now is requiring the players themselves to make up for the deficit of the game’s core design. I know this is all another argument, but your post just got me thinking about it. It’s a good post that identifies a lot.
Reputation means nothing with cross realm. Progressing through higher and higher keys is not time wasted if your goal is to complete them at a higher level.
A player may choose to skip ahead for their own reasons but other players don’t have to accept them without being shown that they can complete the content at that level. It’s not an unreasonable expectation.
Everyone has to start somewhere. You need to start from the bottom if you wish to be noticed.
You can absolutely get raid ready right now. We went into heroic at 175, didnt need (or have access to) a single M+. “Raid ready” and “Get into a raid pug” are not the same thing. Ive said it 15 times already in this thread, but know what kind of group you cant get kicked out of because of your ilvl?
I have 3 alts after this one. I have 2 at ~185 from nothing but WQ and a single m0 world tour, and a 197 I have been doing solely M+ on. Ya, I play too much, but getting into the point where you can start your own group and have an expectation of success is really not an issue right now. There are definitely conversations to be had about m+ loot drop rates, but getting to 185ish without having to do M+ is completely possible and rather easy.
Have you tried to pug anything recently? Average ilvl demands climb exponentially every week by the playerbase at large. What once asked for 170 gear now has people asking left and right for 190, 200+.
Without a catch up system, this feels terrible to many people. And it will continue to drive players away, which is bad for longterm game health. Eventually, it will be nothing more than the tiny hardcore community left, arguing amongst themselves about who is and isnt being carried.
Yes, I pugged both keys I did this week, and last week. I started the groups so I had complete control over getting in and what comp I wanted.
i understand you care more about being ‘right’ or perceiving that you have ‘won’ an argument than actually looking objectively at whats happening here, but im making a statement about long term game health.
its great that you personally dont have an issue with this, but a lot of people do. And they’re unsubscribing and walking away. And thats bad for the game.
This is a criticism more of how WoW just took EQ’s MMO model and hasn’t innovated it at all since it’s inception.