Season 4 PvP Update: Removing the Conquest Cap and Spoils of War

[Hairygaryqt-emerald-dream]

This makes me all giddy inside.

Can you give us conq boxes too?

[Bowseph-smolderweb]

Blizzard cares about pvp?!

[Tonìc-area-52]

@Bornakk

1. For the Solo Shuffle Brawl, the minimum item level floor has been increased to 278 (is currently 252). This is already live.

Please introduce this to random battlegrounds as well… it is already an awful experience to queue into teammates with 20k hp and it will only get worse if everyone has full conquest gear

[Battlemaster-stormrage]

@Bornakk

Second, we know that once the Conquest cap is removed, many players will set out to acquire a full set of gear as quickly as possible, creating a significant power gap between themselves and any characters that are new to the season

There’s already a power gap with characters that are new to the season because they cannot convert honor gear to tier due to your bad early season designs and are locked out of conquest tier if there’s a cap

Massive powergaps were allowed to exist all through season 1 and season 2, especially season 2 when honor gear was lower ilvl than previous season’s duelist gear and couldn’t even be upgraded 7/7 because of timegated renown lock and that was fine with the dev team?
You havent cared about new/returning/casual pvpers for the entirety of shadowlands so that’s a bs justification

@Bornakk

Finally, the Conquest cap serves to throttle gear acquisition to a rate comparable with the other main parts of the endgame, Raids and M+.

There’s a timegate on m+ gearing?

[Mhortai-stormrage]

@Bornakk

First, we understand the sentiment regarding how Valor is uncapped this season while Conquest remains capped. However, the two currencies are not exactly alike in design or purpose. For example, there is no Valor vendor where you can purchase the specific item that you want. While Conquest is used to acquire specific items at a vendor, Valor is used to upgrade items that have dropped randomly from the Great Vault or from running M+ dungeons.

This is true, but PvPers can’t just spam dungeons for gear. We don’t get gear drops, the only way to get them is through the vendor. We also have to grind a lot of honor to upgrade all of them as well. All the Valor cap did was keep m+ from spamming low keys and upgrading the gear. Which you removed this season and you see lots of decked out M+ players less than 2 weeks into the season. I didn’t keep them from doing high keys and getting the gear. PvPers are/were gated every week.

@Bornakk

Second, we know that once the Conquest cap is removed, many players will set out to acquire a full set of gear as quickly as possible, creating a significant power gap between themselves and any characters that are new to the season. We generally do not remove the cap until later in the season when we feel many players who have been playing all season have had the opportunity to acquire a full set of gear. This allows the competitive environment to remain closer during the early part of the season.

The weird thing is this is ok for the M+ setting. You just removed all barriers. I understand in a PvP setting it’s far more impactful but that is a biproduct of the gear ranking up system of Slands. But at the same time everyone can go get their full sets now.

@Bornakk

inally, the Conquest cap serves to throttle gear acquisition to a rate comparable with the other main parts of the endgame, Raids and M+.

Having to throtlle powering up your character is a biproduct of the systems. But, the conquest cap was the worst of them all. PvE’ers have many ways to acquire gear to power up for raid or M+. Via dungeons and raids. The only place PvPers can get gear is PvP and the vendor. The worst part is if you wanted your weapon(s) especially if you need a two hander you got ZERO conquest gear week one and by the end of week 2 you got 1 piece (maybe two if you got a vault). Mean while again, M+ players are running around pretty decked out. That on top of having to grind rating and then upgrade all that gear with honor. PvPers get 1 or 2 pieces of gear a week. I basically cap my vault, get my 1 piece of gear and then log of my mains because I can’t power them up anymore. That happens like 3 days into the week.

Good to see it removed and the buffs added though. I just don’t totally agree with the reasoning on why it wasn’t removed from the start. I get what you are saying, but I don’t agree.

In any other season I would have been fine because it’s always worked this way. But this was the “for fun” experimental season.

[Bawk-sargeras]

A very much-needed change. Thank you!

[Jedao-emerald-dream]

Amazing changes. Thank you for implementing them quicker than I expected.

[Revérence-tichondrius]

This is cool and all but I have a question, will you be adding conquest boxes alongside this? So that we can farm on our main toons then send our crappy low geared alts some gear??? I have a toon still in a complete set of season 2 2400 gear that I wanted to get back out to play with friends and let them get to q

[Natixsphere-stormrage]

So now we know guys that they see and read what we write on these forums but the just seldom act on it. Outside of one offs like this because they know what kind of dumpster fire of an xpac this has been in the pvp world.

[Enthused-sargeras]

This is a good fix. Of course there are a few cons, but with the current situation on the servers, there is significantly more and bigger pros.

[Vayriana-stormrage]

This is wonderful! Thank you. <3

[Nasuuna-emerald-dream]

For this season I think it maybe makes sense. I don think that the cap is good, and that feeling forced to grind conquest all hours of the day to keep up is not good for most people.

[Sadvadrenz-skullcrusher]

Neat! Awesome that you’re willing to try it out.

Makes me wonder what raiding would be like if it didn’t have lock outs

[Yonbi-illidan (Yonbi)]

@Bornakk

First, we understand the sentiment regarding how Valor is uncapped this season while Conquest remains capped. However, the two currencies are not exactly alike in design or purpose. For example, there is no Valor vendor where you can purchase the specific item that you want. While Conquest is used to acquire specific items at a vendor, Valor is used to upgrade items that have dropped randomly from the Great Vault or from running M+ dungeons.

This is a weird take.

I can run M+2’s as many times as I need to to “target” an item. So sure, I have to jump through some more hoops, but isn’t it the same? In fact, the amount of arena grinding you have to do to purchase the base item may be roughly the same as the time you spent farming M+2s (depending on rng).

@Bornakk

Second, we know that once the Conquest cap is removed, many players will set out to acquire a full set of gear as quickly as possible, creating a significant power gap between themselves and any characters that are new to the season. We generally do not remove the cap until later in the season when we feel many players who have been playing all season have had the opportunity to acquire a full set of gear. This allows the competitive environment to remain closer during the early part of the season.

This is always the case. Maybe its time to consider dropping the PvP upgrades which does nobody any favors. That’s why there is such a massive gap between honor gear, conquest gear r1, and conquest gear r8. You’ve exacerbated the problem with the item upgrades.

@Bornakk

Finally, the Conquest cap serves to throttle gear acquisition to a rate comparable with the other main parts of the endgame, Raids and M+.

Yeah but it doesn’t. Some people just wait it out. Others are perpetually behind (cannot break Rank X barrier). It is far more of an issue in PvP than it is in PvE.

[Dabeard-sargeras]

Excellent.

Now just pull that ripcord and make all conquest gear scale to max ilevel in PvP. Keep the PvE ilevel scaling as-is to satisfy the bean-counters.

[Nasuuna-emerald-dream]

I think the whole point is that uncapped a persons ability to grind means that everyone has to grind, and anyone who isn’t grinding is now going to be fighting people with max ilvl in start of the season gear.

That doesn’t seem good for anyone.

[Dabeard-sargeras]

@Nasuuna-emerald-dream

That doesn’t seem good for anyone.

Some people and/or alts are going to be in for a rough couple weeks. The buff to honor gains could be doubled or tripled to ease some pain and suffering.

[Snugglecakes-dalaran]

You’re welcome guys

[Bigsimba-area-52]

This myth that people are going to get full geared then tank to low ratings and then sit there just to farm people has to stop. Yes there will be people doing carries and yes there will be people helping friends but those matches are not frequent enough to where you can’t enjoy PvP and progress at your own pace. The weekly box combined with no conquest cap combined with no valor cap gives the biggest advantage ever. Those PvPers who farm m+ and get lucky in their weekly boxes have an advantage over people who doesn’t farm m+ and got useless trinkets or bad stat items in their box.

[Shadina-gorefiend (Shadina)]

@Bornakk

Second, we know that once the Conquest cap is removed, many players will set out to acquire a full set of gear as quickly as possible, creating a significant power gap between themselves and any characters that are new to the season. We generally do not remove the cap until later in the season when we feel many players who have been playing all season have had the opportunity to acquire a full set of gear. This allows the competitive environment to remain closer during the early part of the season.

I’m gonna be real – and please, for the love of Jesus, bring this back to the devs. If they cared about this, right? If they cared about this piece right here – lemme blow up the important part.

@Bornakk

creating a significant power gap between themselves and any characters that are new to the season.

If you gave a damn about the significant power gap (and I’m not specifically highlighting you Bornakk, I know you’re not a Dev), if you guys cared about this, you wouldn’t let PvP have an actual flippin’ box. If Jimmy gets his weapon week 2 of the season out of the box and Bobby don’t, Jimmy has an IMMENSE power gap over Bobby and every other poor schmuck who didn’t get their weapon.

Do away with this in DF.