Season 4 class tuning

Due to the lack of communication regarding the upcoming class tuning, I would like to ask when we’re getting more information on this.

Due to the horrible tuning and gameplay that Havoc Demon Hunter received in 9.2.5 with double legendaries, it went from a fun spec to a “this feels horrible to play” spec. With Survival being targeted for nerfs as well, that leaves me with 0 specs to play in Season 4, so I need to know whether or not I have to get another spec ready.

The Havoc feedback on Sinful brand is overwhelmingly negative, yet we’ve heard nothing about changes in 9.2.7. It feels bad having to drop my main character because there’s nothing being done about its play style only being viable if you pick a borrowed power that does 30~35% of your total damage. I don’t mind getting another character ready, but I would like to know by now as time is running out.

Yes I picked survival cause it’s FOTM. I do more DPS with a 20 ilvls lower pressing even less buttons than havoc.


Class tuning for next week is here:


You forgot to add the Demon Hunter changes


This is not aimed at you Kaivax, or any Blizzard employee in particular. You’re all doing a great job!

I am pissed at how poorly Havoc is being treated this expansion though. Not only did Havoc not get a single fix for Venthyr being way above all the other covenants, it also got an implicit nerf for its only reasonable playstyle due to the removal of Urh in M+.

I’ve been told that the Community Council feedback is valuable, well here’s my feedback: Start communicating with players about the state of certain specs when there are this many posts about it on your forums, even if it’s a “we think it’s fine, we’re not changing it”.


Thank you for the post. We understand your frustration and want to take this opportunity to explain why there won’t be any changes to address the issue in Shadowlands. First, we largely view this as a preferred playstyle issue and not a balance one. Upon reviewing balance across all content formats, we didn’t see any reason to make changes to Havoc specifically. Second, the primary issue that we’re hearing is that some players do not enjoy the playstyle of maintaining Sinful Brand uptime through Eye Beam. We don’t think this point of the expansion is the appropriate time to disrupt players that have made significant investment into playing Havoc this way. However, we acknowledge the feedback you’re giving and we’ll be sure not to bring this particular gameplay forward into Dragonflight.


Thanks for your update! Some aura tuning would go a long way, especially considering it’s not so much a preferred playstyle, as a “you can’t play anything else because you’ll be pretty far behind in DPS”.

Reduce the sinful brand damage output while increases that of the DH basekit. This will most likely still make Venthyr the strongest pick, but at least gives people the option to play Night Fae again without making a huge sacrifice in their damage output. Sinful brand gameplay will remain largely the same while it doesn’t feel like 1/3rd of your damage is from a dot.

When I look at the logs, there’s not even enough Night Fae Havoc on Mythic or Heroic, 96~99% is Venthyr. Night Fae is easily 2~3k dps behind on ST fights, whereas Night Fae was competing with Venthyr last season as it was much more balanced.

Yes Venthyr is a preferred playstyle, but that’s because the alternative is pretty much non-existent unless you’re getting carried by your raid. This isn’t even talking about M+ where with minimal effort other classes are doing the same dps almost every pack compared to dh bursting everything with meta, which is a 4m CD.

We still have a whole season to go, please don’t make us suffer and hate our mains by forcing a dot gameplay on us. If I wanted to play with dots, I’d have picked another spec.

Can’t wait to see what DF will bring us, because I can’t wait to see Sinful Brand disappear for good (right? :eyes: )


This is effectively what’s done to Mad Bombardier on Survival. Any chance the same concept can be applied to Sinful Brand?