Yes I agree with all this. I am not a raider, but literally thousands of people devoted 6-12 hours a week last season in the mythic raid, for months, in a dated system with far too many restrictions, only to fall short due to overtuned tindral and fryyak. That is ridiculous. This is a video game.
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I just want the challenge to be equivalent across game modes.
If M+ dungeons give the same ilvl gear as Mythic Smolderon, then theyâd better damn well be as difficult as Mythic Smolderon. But theyâre not, theyâre a hundred times easier.
âTheyâre only easier because its easier to get 5 players than 20, though.â False. Mythic Smolderon is a challenge. Mythic+ dungeons are like a game of CandyLand.
Thatâs the elephant in the room.
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Disprove me. Please, show me when Blizzard made the game considerably harder and it resulted in more popularity.
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The DF dungeons are just overcooked. Too much stuff going on with every trash pack.
But⌠the S1 DF dungeons are noticeably better without storming.
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Man, you are still on this one lol. You wonât let this go. But the answer isnât make keys harder, itâs to make raid gearing easier. The gear shouldnât be th chase. The chase is completing the content.
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Anything before Cata. You could stand around in town picking your nose but if you wanted to actually go and do something, there were no easy-modes with all the mechanics missing.
If you wanted to fight Illidan, you had to⌠actually fight Illidan. There was no âIllidan forgot most of his spellsâ version of Illidan to do instead.
Cata literally proves my point.
We got to watch it all in real time thanks to Classic WoW.
Once the raids got too hard for WoW dads the playerbase massively fell off during the end of Wrath Classic. The WoW SoD devs even spoke about the fact that this observation was present in their data.
Either approach would work, but Blizzard needs to do something. Iâm only bringing it up because all of these things are interconnected.
Is M+ too easy? Yes. Primarily because itâs so easy and over-rewarding compared to other content. But the other content is under-rewarding and overly difficult, because the only thing the developers care about is their eternal war with Echo over which of them can pee farther.
Brew is 100 % correct here btw, and I am saying this as someone who clearly wants the game to be much easier in general for the majority of the playerbase.
When I say correct I mean M+ comparatively to the raid for the record.
This I canât comment on, because I donât know many people in the Mythic raiding scene anymore to have their perspective these days.
But I do think for most content, there should be a middle ground. And I do believe there needs to be better balance and spacing between each of the difficulties. Right now, Iâm focused on trying to fix the gaps between N, H, M0 and +2. Iâve been spamming a chart, but people got annoyed, so I wonât spam it again, but⌠the basis for me is that Heroic is a droolfest and needs to be brought up some, while M0 is a little on the too much HP and tad too much damage output for those trying to go from Heroic to M0. So I feel Heroic needs to be brought up and M0 brought down just a smidge, just to even out the scaling and difficulty between all of the four difficulties.
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Lol. Agreed about the echo crap. Yeah, I think th main gearing difference ATM is obviously the vault. Heroic track keys are pretty tough right now. Certainly not unplayable, but tough. I think my guild knocked a bunch of heroic bosses out on Wednesday, and theyâre mostly really casual players.
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The correct answer is neither. Because the later group is not the majority either. Both groups are extreme minorities.
Just because a difficulty mode is there doesnât mean you need to do it. Mythic is there for those types of players. Itâs not intended for nor should it be designed as accessible to everyone. Thatâs what LFR is for. Same raid dumbed down so the lowest common denominator can experience the story and get loot. Normal and Heroic serve to elevate the challenge between the two extremes. I donât raid mythic myself but I also donât see any problem with having HARD content for those who enjoy it.
To me the important thing is everyone has a progression path available to them which they can work on. Where we fall on that is personal and its different for everyone. But ideally we all have rungs we can reach and others above that to work through.
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I think it will be ok with more gear, but I did prefer S3.
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Iâve run a Cutting Edge Mythic raiding guild for 10 years now, and donât know anyone whoâs happy with the direction Mythic raiding has taken since BfA.
If Mythic raiding isnât for the people who have been doing it for years, who the hell is it for?
Other than Echoâs twitch revenue, of course, which seems to be the only thing the devs care about.
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Theyâre such a one trick pony of whining about how m+ gets rewards and it hurts their feewies that they have been on ignore for months and the forum is a better place for it imo.
They also conveniently ignore that every classes best trinkets and weapons always come from raid every season, because that would not fit the narrative that m+ âinvalidates raidâ 
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Last Dungeon season had 6 of the 8 dungeons were old dungeons that had fewer mechanics unlike the dragon flight dungeons where the bosses have way more mechanics and they are in general longer.
It would make sense that the dragonflight dungeons are harder because they have way more boss mechanics in the current expansion.
Except of course theyâre not. Puzzle Box, the cheat death trinket from DoI, Crawg Tusks, Forgestorm, etc etc etc. And thatâs just for my class.
It might be a hot take but with all the degenerate stuff liquid and echo pull every season the fact that they donât full clear mythic in a week is a sign that tuning has gotten out of hand. If people playing the game with actual analysts and in house weakaura teams strategizing fights months in advance and reaching near end patch level loot levels in a week due to split raid shenanigans still need multiple weeks to full clear a raid is it really surprising that the content just sometimes shuts out players who donât play professionally. Mythic being hard is well and good but the difficulty threshold that it should achieve realistically should be aimed toward the top 5-10% of raiders rather then the .01%.
People like to dunk on emerald nightmare, but I had a unique experience of coming back to the game at the start of legion and having emerald nightmare as my first raid tier of modern wow was a great experience even if it was apparently the easiest raid in close to a decade.
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I donât think the game even needs to be made easier. It is how this guy who does the dungeons and raids decides to add more challenge that is the problem. The stuff he adds is unfun.
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