Scarlet set items and enhancement shaman

so I started doing armoury and Cathedral last night, I dps’d in armoury and healed Cathedral and I started wondering about the scarlet set. Now at 36 I still cant wear mail for 4 levels but I will need as many of those pieces as I can get to make leveling at 40 smooth. Can I roll need on them?

right now my gear is not good enough to grind quests effectively so I figured maybe ill just grind out armory and cath to 40 but every group has at least 1 warrior who can use mail right now even though they go plate at 40.

so can I need on mail gear over a warrior

1 Like

I did, I told them all I was going to before hand.

2 Likes

I’d roll need.

1 Like

I wouldnt roll need on an item I can’t currently equip unless it was ok’d ahead of time by the group I’m in.

Let the group know ahead of time and if there is any objection, someone needs to leave. Either the warrior if they joined your group, or you if you joined the warriors group.

3 Likes

Yes, let them know you’re doing it to prep for 40, when you get the skill.

2 Likes

Realistically speaking the mail gear in sm isn’t all that great for shamans. Just because it’s mail doesn’t make it that beneficial. Sure it’s a bit of extra armor that is useful while solo questing but in dungeons you shouldn’t be getting hit so armor isn’t that big of a deal. While strength is nice for shamans you should be focused on agility and crit over attack power. The mail helm in sm that gives you 1% crit should be your only real goal out of sm regarding mail gear.

1 Like

you can do fine with strength and a slow 2h if you use rockbiter, and the mail reduces incoming damage a lot. the set is more than adequate to effectively grind quests into the late 40s

edit: I cant see all your gear earthwurm, but you at least have herods shoulders… how many pieces of scarlet gear and potentially a ravager do you have?

I have the Herod shoulders on because we were farming sm with 2 warriors one night. We ran it so many times none wanted the mail gear so I got them. My previous shoulders were garbage and as I mentioned in my last post, mail gear is definitely nicer for solo questing for the extra armor. Regarding the ravager axe, which I did use for many levels, was not the question brought up. Of course the ravager is great for enhance shamans. The question was about mail gear specifically. I’m not saying mail gear isn’t better just stating leather gear typically has more of the valuable stats which unfortunelty mail lacks until later on.

Edit: I had the 1% crit mail helm from sm and the Herod shoulders I’m still wearing but I never bothered rolling any any other time because they were more beneficial for warriors. I’d much rather have crit to proc the 30% attack speed buff more then the attack power rewarded by the sm gear.

1 Like

If you can’t equip it right then and there, you don’t roll need without the group okaying it. It’s rude.

If the group says cool, and most folks would be cool with it I imagine, then go for it.

You’re wrong.

Strength and attack power is almost always better than agility for enhancement.

A big part of the reason for this is because agility/crit is so easy for us to get, and strength/AP is more difficult. So when you have the opportunity to get Str/AP, you should take it.

he is not wrong really… it is completely viable to go all AGI with a fast weapon and destroy mobs quickly, the logic is sound more hits (fast weapon) more crits, more flurry, more WFs = fast killing… unfortunately at lvl 40ish the best gear available is slow weapons and str gear.

Both are viable but it can be tough to find a balance

1 Like

Both are good enough, and if you actively prefer the crit-stacking, then go for it.

But it isn’t better. The math is there; AP is important, and focusing on it where you can get it (without being an excessive expense) will get you more overall DPS.

I mean, you can

You likely will get kicked from groups and make Warriors pretty upset but you can if you really want

I want to say there’s better pieces you can pick up in general in SM as the set bonuses aren’t really amazing

I don’t think you can need OVER a warrior, but you can need along with a warrior sure. I mean, warriors are in the same boat as us. Just because they get armor upgrades at 40, doesn’t mean they have a full set ready for them. Just as we’re still justified in rolling on leather gear (which I guess SM doesn’t really have much of tbh) a warrior should be allowed to roll on mail.
But, as people have already said, just ok it with the group first. I actually have the mail shoulders that drop from Herod because no one in the group needed and they were all chill with it because I asked. Lvl 36 like you my friend

it is completely viable to go all AGI with a fast weapon and destroy mobs quickly, the logic is sound more hits (fast weapon) more crits, more flurry, more WFs = fast killing… unfortunately at lvl 40ish the best gear available is slow weapons and str gear.

Let’s say your current critical rate is 10% and your current weapon dps is 100 (all factors being added in). You get a piece which can be either 20 Agility or 20 Strength.

That 20 Agility would give you +1% critical and +0.72% haste (from Flurry). This is approximately 1.72 dps with the existing dps.

20 Strength would be +2.86 dps (from 2 attack power per strength, 14 attack power per dps).

However, if the dps of your weapon (all factors considered) was 165 or above, then Agility is now equal to Strength.

That being said, let’s say you’re wielding Nightfall (a classic Enh Shaman endgame weapon). It’s 67 dps. To reach that 165 dps you’d need a whopping 686 Strength - about +600 Strength from gear/buffs.

In practice, Shaman will prioritize Strength > Agility almost universally (critical strike rating is better than both and should be sought out almost without regard to the other elements of the gear).

In terms of fast vs. slow, Stormstrike favors slow weapons - it’s one of the few attacks that didn’t get normalized in 1.8. One way to look at this is that Stormstrike provides additional ‘haste’ equal to ((20 / weapon speed) + 1) / (20 / weapon speed). So on a 3.5 speed weapon, it would grant the equivalent of 17.5% more attacks while a 2.0 speed weapon would only grant 10% more attacks.

There are two caveats here:

  • In a raid setting, you don’t have the debuff slots for Stormstrike so there’s no advantage for the slower weapon.

  • Slower weapons have more variance. In practice, this means you need to leave more ‘room’ below the threat being generated by the tank with slower weapons. This ‘threat cap’ is actually one of the most important elements of dps in raiding and it’s one of the reasons that hybrids don’t compete very well against Rogues/Mages - they don’t have the threat reduction talents those classes do. When your dps varies dramatically over time, the risk of surges of dps means you need to voluntarily curtail your dps.

It’s also important to note that in some idealized world, all you’re ever going to be is a glass cannon who never gets hit and deals damage. This is not how the game actually plays. Outside of raids, having sufficient armor to take a few hits is actually quite important - although BiS lists normally considered it to be of no value at all.

2 Likes

interdasting

sorry I didn’t mean that I would roll need over a warrior I just want to be allowed to compete for it. I think I will just specify that before I join the group I be allowed to roll with warriors or ill just find another group

1 Like

I would wait till lvl 39-40 to do SM arm and cath for those pieces if you want to be polite. That said, everyone knows why the shaman is looking to do those dungeons so dont feel bad needing on them.

Actually if you do the math agility is much better for shamans. Nothing wrong with rolling str over agility but we get the majority of our damage from windfury procs & flurry. You get flurry from crit. Flurry gives you 30% attack speed for 3 swings hence more chance on windfury. This is the sole reason you should be worried about agility over str. Some would argue harder hits is better then agility but I’d have to disagree. We should be using the slowest 2 hander possible with the highest damage then relying on flurry to take that attack speed down.

Edit: also not stating you shouldn’t roll on particular items but when you start needing on things just because “I can use” you start to look a lot like all of these hunters running around here. If it’s an upgrade and the group doesn’t mind by all means roll on it. However if your dropping vital stats for something that isn’t as useful well… not ok. Also warriors start to use plate at 40. Haven’t really seen any of them that upset about a piece of mail gear they lost in sm. I have seen these “tanks” pissed about not getting a 2 hander though which is a whole nother argument to be had