Scarlet Enclave Final

I think SE could have been better if they:

Had a normal and heroic version. Had the loot be slightly better from the heroic version. Encouraging progression but also making it so normal dad raids could feel good about clearing. Just like ICC in wrath. You progress the Heroic boss and when you couldnt get it you put it to normal and kept going.

Had more loot drops or added more bosses that were “free.” Going from 15 bosses to 8 felt like a huge drop off of loot. Should have made 1-4 more bosses at the start that basically took no skill to beat.

Reduced the amount of trash. 1/3 of the raid time shouldn’t be spent killing trash when everyone is limited on time to begin with.

I dont feel like making SE a solid raid for both dads and sweats was a hard concept. Blizzard is just too lazy and did not care enough this go around. SOD team should be disappointed.
Sad because the fights are cool but most wont stick around to see them.

5 Likes

Casual Guild Here:

  • Difficulty: This raids difficulty is 100% not in the numbers (anymore at least), it’s in the mechanical density. All of Naxx was “stand here and dps”. Then, overnight, it went to Balnazzar which is “stand here, within 6 yards of someone, but outside of 2 years from everyone. Then within this small radius light. Then move to a new light as the lights start to disappear”. I can’t stress enough, just how overwhelming the mechanics are for average and below average groups. Sunwell had less mechanical density, and was a similarly “hard” raid for most guilds. Take the 2 “walls” of that raid, brutallus and muru are basically stand still fights lol. I think the biggest issue with this raid, is they just need to have less stuff happen during the fights, easy. Tune the HP/Healing/DPS checks tightly and people will enjoy them.

  • Expectations: We sort of assumed Season of Dads was going to be a natural progression after WoTLK which was VERY raid loggy. You logged in, raided for 3-6 hours, then logged off. This was pretty much the case for all of SoD till Scarlet Enclave. Now, after 1-2 years of 1-3hour day raiding, it’s tough to ask people to up that for progression.

  • New Avalon/SE is boring?: For those of us with more than 3-6 hours a week to play, I feel a bit bored. The items that we have gotten so far, are sick af. I’m completely down for them to be gated a bit behind hard progression. But with raid progression feeling a bit slow at the moment, it’s nice for there to be other things in the game to do. During Sunwell, there were arenas (you could get really good s4 helms for those without CVOS), you could do the new heroic (for mount/trinkets), and there were a ton of great trinkets still from ZA you could farm. Hell, even moroes trinket was bis for brutallus. The whole game still felt relevant. Now, we got sooooo much Naxx loot, that literally nothing feels worth running. Idk, but I would’ve loved just some “heroic” dungeons to farm some loot/mounts/etc in.

Every phase you whine about the raid being too difficult.
Stop man.

From crying about the FR requirements in MC, to AQ being “overtuned” and “too long to clear… 3-4 hours”, saying Blizzard is making a bad decision stopping Seal Rank at 7 (which was plenty powerful enough for people to clear HM4), and then SE.

You said you were quitting.
Just quit.

3 Likes

Tomorrow is my last raid.
Appreciate you being a fan/creeper. Good to know you following and reading all my posts LOL :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Looks you need to spend more time in wow vs reading all my posts. Maybe you would be 8/8.

2 Likes

It isn’t hard to look at someone activity and see they’re a doomer.

All you do is whine and complain about a video game.

Yes, we don’t bring 40 people to our raids to breeze through them, sorry.

I’ve also commended you, just about every phase, for getting your raid teams through difficult raids and encounters.
At the same time, I just wish your viewpoint would differ a little.

Not everything is “bad”.
Very few things are, actually.
I like that this phase is forcing many people together to accomplish a full clear of the raid. Its actually bringing a lot of Guilds together and having them help each other out.

Eventually, with gear, raid teams will be able to return to their 20 man rosters and breeze through the raid… this change up is quite nice for the time being.

As someone who has done 150+ Sunken temples, 50+ Heat Lvl 3 MC’s, 60+ Mythic BWL’s, 50+ Heroic AQ40s, 40+ Mythic Naxx, and 18 SE 5/8 to 8/8.
I know when people are starting to hate on the game and are quitting.
I ask for nerfs and change because i dont want to continue to lose the player base.
I watched during sunken temple as majority of guilds quit. My guild at one point had 1/3 of all logs for sunken temple. We had 15 raid teams and I led 4 pug runs also.
Ill tell you right now. People are quitting.
If someone like me is quitting despite how much ive played that should be a red flag right there.

Did you get 40man for H3, Mythic BWL/Naxx and HC AQ as well like you did for those boring 8/8 clears with nothing to brag about except 40manning content that should’ve been tuned for 20?

Quit or merged? There’s a clear difference between the two, but I doubt you could tell cuz you treat clearing SE as 40man as something you should be proud of :rofl:

Clearly you didnt play SOD or youd know you couldnt bring more than 20 to MC. Must hurt having so much brain rot. Feels bad. If clearing SE the first lockout was so easy why didnt everyone do it?

I cleared SE the first lockout with dads. Not 99+ parsers. Of course ill brag about it. LMAMW is a dad guild that beat 99.9% of the player base.

Weird, I didn’t know you could do SE on Pagle or at level 80 for that matter, that’s quite the feat.

:yawning_face:

Your suggestion to add extra loot drops, split modes, or even additional “free” bosses to make SE more accessible not only undermines the very essence of raiding but also exposes a clear disconnect between rhetoric and action. Raids exist to challenge teams—to have players overcome meticulously designed boss mechanics, scramble through intense encounters, and feel the true satisfaction of hard-earned progress. When you propose alternative methods for loot acquisition, like extra bosses or a secondary currency that speeds up gear progression, you’re effectively shifting the focus from skillful boss kills to farming an easier resource. In doing so, you risk diluting the risk–reward dynamic that is central to what makes raiding so rewarding.

Even more ironic is that you rail against the current design while having already bailed on it. You canceled your sub after poaching over 50 players from other guilds, a move that suggests you weren’t fully committed to the very challenges you now criticize. If your goal was to preserve a true test of skill and teamwork, sticking through the adversity and earning loot through actual boss encounters would have been the ultimate statement. Instead, your exit—coupled with questionable recruitment practices—shows a preference for the easier path rather than a willingness to embrace the demanding nature of authentic raiding.

Furthermore, by adding extra, simplified encounters or accelerated loot paths, you run the risk of wrecking game balance. The current system, with all its frustrations like bad RNG, serves as a crucial counterweight that makes exceptional drops feel so meaningful. Allowing a fallback system erodes that sense of hard-won achievement and diminishes the satisfaction that comes from truly overcoming adversity in a well-crafted raid encounter.

Ultimately, if you believe that making SE more accessible through watered-down mechanics is the solution, then consider the irony of bailing when the going gets tough. Players who remain committed understand that the enduring thrill of raiding comes from facing difficult challenges head-on and earning every piece of gear through perseverance and skill—not by milking an alternative currency or relying on extra, low-effort bosses.

Do you really think Blizzard should compromise the integrity of the raid—for the sake of those unwilling to stick it out—when true reward lies in mastering every challenge, no matter how punishing?

Have you considered refining your approach and honing your skills a bit further? The mechanics in this raid are designed to be fair and engaging, and they reward strategic play rather than relying on shortcuts or exploits. The intent is not for the raid to function like a “loot piñata” where rewards are handed out without effort, but to challenge players and reward those who master the encounter.

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Yo, Enhmypants, your response to Padrepally’s post is a masterclass in missing the point, slinging baseless accusations, and gatekeeping Classic WoW’s Scarlet Enclave like it’s your personal fiefdom. You twist their legit feedback into some raid-betraying manifesto, and your sanctimonious take falls apart under scrutiny. Let’s tear this apart, piece by flimsy piece, and show why your argument is a hot mess.

Your “Essence of Raiding” Spiel Is Elitist Nonsense
You claim Padrepally’s suggestions—like extra loot paths or simpler bosses—gut the “essence of raiding” by shifting focus from skillful kills to “farming easier resources.” Newsflash: Scarlet Enclave’s essence is already a slog for most guilds, not some sacred trial only you understand. Padrepally pointed out the raid’s mechanical overload—Balnazzar’s “stand here, but not there, now move” dance is a nightmare for average players. Suggesting ways to ease that burden, like a currency system or extra encounters, isn’t about dodging skill; it’s about making the raid playable without a PhD in positioning. Your beloved “risk–reward dynamic” isn’t ruined by giving players options—it’s enhanced by letting more people actually engage with the content instead of wiping for weeks and quitting.

Your Recruitment Smear Is Irrelevant and Petty
Oh, and that cheap shot about Padrepally “poaching 50 players” and canceling their sub? Pure mudslinging. First, you’ve got zero evidence tying their recruitment to abandoning the raid—guilds merge or recruit all the time in Classic, especially when progression stalls. Second, their post screams commitment: they’re offering constructive feedback to improve Scarlet Enclave, not whining from the sidelines. Accusing them of “bailing” while they’re still engaged enough to post is laughable. You’re deflecting from their valid points about mechanical density and lack of side content by painting them as quitters. If anyone’s dodging the real issue, it’s you with this irrelevant gossip.

Extra Loot Paths Don’t Break Balance—They Fix It
You wail that extra bosses or a currency system would “wreck game balance” and make loot less meaningful. Wrong. Scarlet Enclave’s current setup—where bad RNG can leave skilled players empty-handed for weeks—already breaks balance by rewarding luck over effort. Padrepally’s ideas, like a token system (think TBC’s Badges of Justice), let players work toward gear through consistent clears, not prayer. This doesn’t cheapen drops; it makes them fairer. Exceptional gear can still be gated behind tough bosses or high token costs, keeping the prestige intact. Your obsession with “hard-won achievement” ignores how demoralizing it is to clear bosses flawlessly and get nothing but vendor trash. A fallback system stabilizes progression, keeping guilds raiding instead of imploding.

You’re Hypocritical About “Sticking It Out”
The irony of you preaching about “facing challenges head-on” while dismissing Padrepally’s push for accessibility is rich. They’re not asking for a free ride—they’re suggesting ways to make Scarlet Enclave less punishing for casual players who can’t raid 10 hours a week. Meanwhile, your gatekeeping implies only tryhards deserve to enjoy the raid. If you’re so committed to “authentic raiding,” why not address their point about the lack of side content? They noted Sunwell’s era had arenas, heroics, and ZA to keep the game fresh—Scarlet Enclave offers squat outside Naxx leftovers. Ignoring this while accusing them of dodging adversity shows you’re less about perseverance and more about stroking your own ego.

Your Question Dodges the Real Issue
Your closing jab—“Should Blizzard compromise the raid’s integrity for those unwilling to stick it out?”—is a loaded strawman. Padrepally isn’t shirking; they’re highlighting how Scarlet Enclave’s insane mechanical density and lack of complementary content alienate average players. Their suggestions don’t compromise integrity—they aim to make the raid sustainable for more than just no-lifers. True reward isn’t about gatekeeping gear behind RNG and wipefests; it’s about letting players of all skill levels experience the content they paid for. If anything, your rigid defense of a broken system is what risks killing Classic’s raid scene.

Wrap-Up
Enhmypants, your response is a flimsy mix of elitism, irrelevant attacks, and fearmongering about balance that doesn’t hold up. Padrepally’s post nails Scarlet Enclave’s issues—overwhelming mechanics, no side content, and a progression wall that bores or frustrates most players. Their ideas for extra loot paths or simpler encounters don’t betray raiding; they’d make it more inclusive and engaging, keeping guilds alive. Your sanctimonious gatekeeping and baseless poaching accusations only expose your disconnect from the average player’s reality. If you want to talk “true satisfaction,” start listening to feedback instead of preaching from your ivory tower.

3 Likes

I Never said this

I think you got my post confused with “Focusùp” lol

You want the proof?

Theres the proof.

Now that Ive proven you wrong again. Shall we continue with class?

You accuse me of gatekeeping and twisting feedback into a “raid-betraying manifesto,” yet my earlier point was straightforward: refine your approach and hone your skills. Classic raiding isn’t designed to be a participation trophy exercise. It was never meant to hand out loot like a piñata. Challenging mechanics and unpredictable drops are meant to reward those who truly master every encounter—anything less devalues the entire experience. If you’re quick to suggest extra loot paths or a fallback vendor system instead of embracing the natural risk–reward design, it might be because you’re more comfortable with an easier alternative than actually tackling these challenges head-on.

Your insistence that adding extra loot paths or a token system “fixes” game balance ignores the fact that no loot vendor currently exists in Season of Discovery. The current system forces every piece of gear to be earned through your ability to overcome the encounter—not bought, traded, or farmed through predictable mechanics. Changing that now would shift from a test of skill to an exercise in token collection. If you believe such a fallback is necessary, it suggests that perhaps you’re not confident you can consistently clear these fights without a safety net—a notion that undercuts your claim of “true raiding.”

Your Personal Excuses: Hiding Behind a Level 30 Toon

Critics like you often hide behind accounts that wouldn’t cut it in genuine raiding. The suggestion that alternative systems equate to a watered-down experience is laughable coming from someone clinging to a level 30 retail toon—a character that likely symbolizes an inability to even manage the first boss of Scarlet Enclave without heavy reliance on shortcuts. When you champion adding a vendor as a means to compensate for the raid’s challenges, it comes off less like constructive debate and more like a desperate cry for handouts from someone who can’t consistently perform at the expected standard.

This Isn’t Little League—No Participation Trophies Here

The notion that every encounter should yield a flawless victory isn’t meant to cater to “tryhards” only; it’s about upholding the integrity of what Classic raiding stands for. Raiding isn’t a T-ball game where everyone gets a trophy for showing up—it’s a rigorous, punishing test where every piece of gear is hard-earned. If you’re advocating for fallback systems that guarantee progression when mechanics get overwhelming, then you’re effectively admitting that you need those systems to compensate for an inability to clear the content on your own merit.

Your diatribe is a mix of personal attacks and misplaced claims of inclusivity. If your argument for added loot vendors and extra, simplified encounters is rooted in an inability to consistently overcome Scarlet Enclave’s mechanics, then it’s hard to take your defense of “authentic raiding” seriously. Real Classic raiding is meant to discern true skill from mere participation—and if you can’t handle the challenge without a safety net, perhaps it’s time to step up rather than demand handouts.

Do you really believe that altering the system—which currently has no loot vendor—will preserve true raiding, or are you simply seeking compensation for what you can’t conquer on your own?

This is from another forum post as well. I’m not sure what is worse: your inability to properly reply to threads and keep topics contained without them bleeding over, or your inability to raid and get loot so that you end up crying on forums, asking Blizz to give you free epics that you can’t earn. Maybe in six months they can add a loot vendor, but as of right now—when the raid is still fresh—a loot vendor is neither needed nor warranted. As for buffs for players or nerfs to the current content, I’m pretty sure Blizzard will implement those in the future for the casuals; for now, they have stated that they are happy with the progression of most guilds, which are currently 5/8 this week.

Vendors Don’t Replace Skill—They Reward Resilience
You argue that a token system shifts Scarlet Enclave from a “test of skill” to “token collection,” implying it’s a crutch for those who can’t clear fights. That’s a stretch. A vendor tied to boss kills (think TBC’s Badges of Justice) doesn’t hand out gear for free—you still need to conquer those brutal mechanics, like Balnazzar’s positioning chaos, to earn tokens. Far from undermining skill, it rewards guilds who show up, wipe, learn, and eventually triumph. The current no-vendor setup is gritty, sure, but when bad RNG leaves skilled groups empty-handed for weeks, it risks burning them out. A vendor doesn’t mean “safety net” for weak players—it’s a nod to persistence, letting you grind through adversity without relying on dice rolls. That’s Classic as hell.

Level 30 Toon Jab? Let’s Keep It About the Ideas
Your shot about critics “hiding behind a level 30 retail toon” feels like a low blow, and it sidesteps the real debate. My main’s raid-ready, but even if I were posting from a fresh alt, it wouldn’t change the argument: Scarlet Enclave’s mechanical density and lack of side content are pushing casual guilds to the brink. Calling out someone’s character level to dismiss their feedback is like saying you can’t critique a raid unless you’ve got a BiS parse. Let’s stick to the merits—a vendor isn’t a “handout” for scrubs; it’s a way to keep the raid scene vibrant by ensuring effort pays off, whether you’re a top-tier raider or a dedicated average Joe. I’m here for the challenge, not shortcuts, and a vendor wouldn’t change that.

No Participation Trophies, Just Fair Progression
You frame a vendor as a “participation trophy” that betrays Classic’s punishing ethos, but that’s not what’s being proposed. Nobody’s asking for free loot or “flawless victories” for showing up. Scarlet Enclave’s mechanics are a beast—Padrepally’s post nailed how they overwhelm average groups compared to Sunwell’s simpler fights. A token system doesn’t lower the bar; it gives guilds a path to gear up over time by clearing bosses, not bypassing them. This isn’t Little League—it’s a marathon where every step forward counts. If a guild’s consistently downing early bosses but stalling on loot, tokens let them keep pushing without feeling like they’re bashing their heads against RNG. That’s not coddling—it’s respecting their grind.

SoD’s Design Can Evolve Without Losing Its Soul
You’re right that SoD’s lack of a loot vendor is deliberate, emphasizing gear earned through encounters. But SoD’s all about bold changes—new runes, reworked raids, and a fresh vibe prove Blizzard’s open to tweaking the formula. Scarlet Enclave’s sky-high difficulty and sparse side content (no arenas or ZA like Sunwell had) make it a prime candidate for a vendor to ease progression woes. Adding one now wouldn’t “alter the system” for the worse—it’d keep guilds engaged instead of rage-quitting over bad drops. Classic’s integrity isn’t about locking gear behind RNG; it’s about rewarding skill and commitment, which a balanced vendor (high token costs, gated gear) would do while keeping the raid’s teeth sharp.

Closing Challenge
Enhmypants, I respect your diehard stance on Classic’s raw challenge, but a loot vendor isn’t about dodging Scarlet Enclave’s gauntlet—it’s about making the fight sustainable for more players. Tokens reward boss kills, not participation, and they’d keep guilds raiding without diluting the thrill of a hard-earned kill. Your question about preserving “true raiding” assumes a vendor hands out freebies, but I’m betting you’d agree a system requiring clears of Scarlet Enclave’s toughest bosses is no walk in the park. So, what’s your take—can SoD evolve to support struggling guilds while keeping the hardcore edge, or is pure RNG the only way?

2 Likes

And every phase it’s been correct. No one cares about the selfish takes of mid level 95 IQ players like you who want the game to be balanced in a way that destroys the community so you can have your pathetic self esteem boosted by feeling like you’re part of the big boy club.

Go to retail.

  1. Is your argument really that positioning is something the “average player” can’t handle? That’s quite the standard you’ve placed there.

  2. Focus claimed Guilds disbanded or people were leaving by the masses to join LMAMW, just for him to turn around and quit the game several weeks later.
    Also in this paragraph, please note anything deemed worthy of being “constructive feedback” that isn’t more of a cry for help, for not wanting to progress, for not wanting to simply get better at the game.

  3. There wouldn’t be any loot issues if you… didn’t bring 40 people?
    This raid was tuned for 20. Was it harder for most 20 mans? Yes. Will they be able to achieve a full clear once they get a little bit more gear and understand mechanics/rotations better? Yes.
    You can bring 40 people. Just be ready for the loot distribution to be the worst you’ve ever seen in SoD.

  4. They’re not asking to help those who can’t raid 10 hours a week. They’re asking help for themselves. OP is running SEVERAL raids a week.
    They’ve already nerfed trash, MOST of the bosses in the raid, and claim there will be a future buff to help clear the content for those that are still struggling, yet that isn’t enough.
    “It’s our pixels and we want it now” mindset is out of this world.

  5. Positioning is not and should not be the “challenging” part of a raid.
    That should be a simple mechanic where people move from Point A to Point B without a concern, but you’re limiting the playerbase by claiming this is too much for the “average player”.

  6. Your message is full of “let me flex my knowledge with words many won’t know and show off my vocabulary” while hiding on a character not in SoD, defending the OP where true defense isn’t necessary if he was right, and completely just show that you’re want Classic only.
    You want to be able to stand still, heal, do damage, or tank, and receive your pixels.
    SoD isn’t for you. It’s meant for people who want to play the game, not just those receiving participation trophies for standing in a raid, during a boss encounter.

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It’s certainly not meant for average clowns like you who think that anything less than your own personal version of killing the boss is “free”

Delusional take from a mid level player who has a busted self esteem system. You can’t self validate without other people failing to make yourself better.

Pathetic really.

This is going to be fun. I’m going to answer these questions because they dont like to answer questions.

Yes, they can’t do basic mechanics and want loot pinata bosses.

100% this had a significant impact on the guild prog. I have quoted his remark about having 30-50+ players join his guild then less then 2 weeks later he canceled his sub leaving all these people to suffer.

100% I agree with you here. The raid is tuned for 20 people in T3.5 but at the moment I don’t think there is any guilds with 20 people in T3.5 so taking 40 people helps to negate the 50% power increase that isn’t there because the raid doesn’t have 6pc yet. Which is fine. It will just take longer to get those people geared up which is just the sacrifice people to have make its their choice honestly.

The self-entitlement is real. After about 9 weeks of full clearing the raid with 40 people majority of people should be 6pc. They wont be full bis but this is also most likely the last raid in SoD so why do you want to get full bis right away? Just to quit? Thats not fun

I think I already answered this question when I answered the first question.

Thats what these people do. Then they will criticize your logs at the same time. But avoiding themselves to be held to the same criticism. Its quite funny honestly.

Thats the parse brain for you.

Wait it’s not? Thats not fun I just want to get my purple pixels so I can stand in org and /flex all day and not use the gear

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Criticizing people but hiding on a cata toon is actually.

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focusup on doing more than 2k dps rather than crying raid is hard because your brain ded. Instead of making 20 posts about raid bad while still raiding how bout take a look at a rotation sheet. Raid is hard cause your bad. Your not suppose to clear it week one which LMAMW did. Why would we want SOD to die sooner to cater to a bunch of shieters by nerfing the fun raid into the ground so every boss falls over.