Pre-nerf + buffed ulduar only serves to prop up paladins and drag down every other tank. Sure it’s all possible with any tank but paladins give an edge of forgiveness plus an extremely strong raid cooldown. They are too strong in buffed content. This is exactly the same reason they are the best tanks on pirate servers. Buffed content makes AD and dsac far too strong. Outside of niche cases any raid group will prefer double paladin tanks for any 2 tank fight and 1 paladin tank for any single tank fight. This leaves out everyone playing any other tank class, again, outside of niche cases such as speed running where warrior/druid is the strongest DPS combo.
Ulduar needs to be immediately moved to end state as was promised pre wotlk launch!
Even in the nerfed state it would prop up pallys just as much.
It’s not the difficulty of the content that makes pallys stand out its peoples want to min max. As such so long as pallys are seen as the best they will be used.
In fact in nerfed content they stand out more as right now at least there is times a 2nd tank can be wanted and a 2nd pally is not worth better to use a druid that can tank and dps. Or to a lesser degree dk.
Double pally was only used on alg prog early on it’s not used no more pally with a druid soaker is objectively better while blowing stars with big bang to remove the need for as many dsacs.
If the content was nerfed now 0 reason to ever use a 2nd tank and now you have killed off all other tanks as no reason to use anything but the best when given the option and only need one.
Esp as people don’t play a tier without thinking of the future as toc and icc mainly will favor pally once again why would you waste time gearing anything else.
That is categorically false. DK for instance has end state talents which destroyed self healing as it was early in wrath. Now we have content buffed above the state it was in when they had that self healing. If content was tuned for the end state talents DKs become extremely strong just for the threat they generate. All of the class tuning needs the content to match. Just like when they removed crushing blows in sunwell to make druids and paladins more attractive late in TBC. Warriors are in about the same spot they were back in the day. They are high DPS and high mobility. Druids and DKs are at a great disadvantage with the current tuning due to not having a shield. Paladins have a shield, have powerful cooldowns, and they have cheat death. All of these things reduce in value as bosses die faster, less raid damage goes out, and the big hits are not nearly as likely to one shot a tank. Buffed content not only decreases the value of 3/4 of the tank classes it also does strange things to healing output and damage output of DPS classes. Buffed health makes certain classes more powerful due to the longer execute phase. It also makes some classes MUCH weaker due to less uptime on damage buffs. Then we have to do things like buff ret paladins because blizzard can’t follow what they told us would be the approach.
I mean this just isn’t true though. We have a pally MT with a DK OT and it works just fine. I wouldn’t consider us a niche case. Pally is undeniably the strongest MT but that doesn’t mean you’re not doing content without double pally tanks. We one shot Algalon last week.
Blood DKs are the best tank for hard hitting bosses by far. Paladin tanks don’t have the damage reduction talents DKs have, the CDs DKs have, or the self healing.
DK is just the superior main tank.
Paladins are just better for trash.
The reason people think Paladin is better is because most DK tanks are terrible at playing their character.
let’s be realistic here , wotlk is in the middle of its life span . ulduar is almost complete , the next phase is around the corner and in June 2024 next expansion will be up. to be honest after all this nerfing/buffing of UH and rets, who cares anymore. next expac should be cata + and just have a players poll for any desired changes
Except that is the furthest thing from the truth. Paladins far outperform DKs in this tuning all the way around while bringing more to the raid. There isn’t a single 1 tank fight you would prefer a DK over a paladin on. The hardest hitting bosses all are easier with paladins. Heck a paladin can single tank thorim hardmode because of how much forgiveness AD gives the raid.
I will definitely not be continuing after the absolute disaster that wrath is turning out to be. Not putting up with it any more. I really want to see HM LK dead but I might have to do it via youtube at this rate. It’s spring now, rerolling/gearing a paladin tank isn’t in the cards. This could have all been easily avoidable if Blizzard would have stuck to their “no pre-nerf version of raids”
AD yeah, Dsac no.
Outside of week 1/2 algalon. People honestly overrate Dsac way too much.
It’s not the difficulty of the content that makes pallys stand out its peoples want to min max. As such so long as pallys are seen as the best they will be used.
But pallys are only the best when it comes to tanking the big dps bosses.
Honestly, both dk and warrior have better ST target thread, a warrior has far superior aoe thread.
A feral is… flexible, but i guess ferals still would be rather niche. Imho ferals are the bottom of the tanks, even tho they are neat in speedruns etc.
Just no. The only case where Double pally is sought after IS a niche case, its algalon, which has been buffed to deal ungodly tankdmg - more than every other boss in wotlk will ever deal to a tank compared to the tanks EHP pool.
And btw, statistics show that while protpallys are indeed in pretty much every algalon kill, double protpally still is not the norm.
If the content got nerfed, Tankwarrior should be the meta, for then he would be superior.
Ah Frosstfire with his wisdom. Can you explain where Blood Dks have better dmg reduction/cds than pally ?
Pallys are bad for trash outside of 4 target maximum trash.
Pallys aggro is close to hardcapped at 4 targets, optimum 3 targets.
SoC hits 3 targets, HotR 4.
Consecration is laughable thread output, zero snap value.
And trashtanking should never be a problem anyway, since if trashgroups are actually big and a think, the fok-spec rogues could just tricks close to limitless aggro onto everything that is bulky enough to take the hits.
Oh and OP, there is a freaking active thread about the exactly same topic.
No they don’t. DKs can literally tank all the bosses just fine. They have more CDs if things go wrong. They have anti magic shell and a shield wall type ability. They have massive self healing to the point on some bosses you can basically almost go without heals from healers. They take reduced damage when their health gets low giving healers more chance to keep them up.
DKs are the superior tank when played by a competent person.
It is clear as day on paper and in reality. You are just coping.
AMS: Only usefull against magic dmg. Good Cooldown, but not a one size fits all one.
Their “shield wall type ability” : Inferior to paladins
Their reduced damage (will of the necropolis): LITERALLY WORSE than the dmg reduction from Ardent Defender of the pally. You might not know this, since i guess the internet in your cave only has enough bandwith to write in this forum, but AD has more to offer than just cheat death…
Their massive Selfhealing is a meme. Its useless on anything hitting hard, and irrelevant on everything else that doesnt. Also using selfheal is reducing the Tank Dks thread generation by a lot.
They literally have zero passive self healing lol… Parrying spells is nothing compared to having a shield. Paladins get a 20% damage reduction below 35% AND a cheat death. Literally no pirate server used anything but paladins for MT
Seriously, its not. Its a really good cooldown, that goes without saying, but its not the strongest cooldown in the game.
Bloodlust is stronger.
Its not.
Its mediocre on Ignis
Its utterly useless on Razorscale
Its strong on XT
Its mediocre on Iron Council
Its okay on Kologarn
Its close to useless on Auriyaya
Its good on Hodir
Its good on Thorim
Its good on Freya if your raid suffers from squishys, during EQ during Treephase
Its good on Mimi
Its mediocre on Vexxas
Its super mediocre on Yogg
Its good on Algalon
No, they don’t lol… None of that healing is passive, you have to hit a button for every one of them, often times deciding between two abilities. They also do not come anywhere near the healing of a healer. No where CLOSE. I have a 99 healing parse on XT hardmode. That is 1/4 the healing of the lowest healer. That is with pretty much max death strikes and rune taps with vampiric blood popped on every tantrum. That’s it for healing on a blood DK. That’s all you get. This isn’t 15 years ago.