So we have this old orc that has lived through the beginning of the old Horde on Draenor to the current war of thorns.
He waged war against the Draenei and killed their people in the name of the Horde. Also admits to having killed children and civilians during this time.
He then comes to Azeroth and contributes to the war against stormwind. Assists in sacking the city and killing its people until its canals ran red and were filled with bodies.
Is promoted to Ogrim’s second in command and leads the Horde to war against the elves and Humans in the northern kingdoms. Intent on wiping them out.
In warcraft 3 he decides mass slaughter was not the way and tries to help other come to grips with Slaughter they committed.
Also goes on about how he would stop Garrosh if he took the horde bad place again but only does this when thrall approached him and Garrosh had crossed that line far before this.
So we then come to present day where he is given a chance tell Sylvanas to get stuffed and that he would kill her if she took the Horde to war. He doesn’t though he agrees to the War even agrees to lead it.
He is basically a Junkie who can’t say no to slaughter and only feels bad after the high has come off. He has shown no remorse for his own actions in fact never admits that he has made mistakes and approach those he has wronged and ask for forgiveness or works to redeem himself. He is a coward who would rather wallow in a cell
Even now I get the sense that he is only fighting so he can get a final taste of combat before he gets to off himself in battle. Get his “honorable death” as he calls it.
He is a sick man who should be locked away and left to rot in a cell for the rest of the days for the Crimes he has committed.
If we don’t end up punishing those who commit crimes like the killing civilians and children who should we punish? I mean at this point he has as much more innocent blood on his hands than Sylvanas has.
i understand if characters are hypocrites, i kinda like that actually because i feel like is very human to some extent, many times they don’t even realize it.
but this guy takes it to an extreme.
“or a sovereign king, slain in his own home”
Said the guy who started the war unprovoked murdering dozens of innocents guards, wanted to kill their leader and then let thousands of civillians die in fire.
he basically started the war that ended in the death of rasthakan and he blames the alliance for killing him?
at least sylvanas doesn’t hide that she is a murderer.
Soyfang being a junkie is a perfectly good way to describe his character. He orchestrated the whole plan of WoT but is trying to spin the blame completely on Sylvanas to protect his fragile “honor” (ego)
I think the worst thing about WoW hypocrites like Saurfang and Jaina isn’t that they’re hypocrites, but the writers refuse to admit they are hypocrites. A Well written Hypocrite can be a fun character, but a poorly written one who never gets called out for their bullcrap is just insufferable.
Saurfang is in my opinion the perfect example of blizzard being out of touch with their writing, forcing the horde to work with Jaina is one thing, but making Saurfang be so self centered and conceited is another. Jaina’s hypocrisy was limited to a novel and Mist of Pandaria, and the second one could be excused in her not being all right in the head, Saurfang never got hit by a manabomb, so what’s his excuse.
OMFG how can people call Jaina hypocrite after all she has done for the Horde. After all those years of advocating peace Horde came and nuked her city and then used her new city to steal another WMD. Of course anyone would snap and go ballistic but unlike certain Horde characters she rose up and cool off.
refers to the neutrality regarding in the tides of war novel where she said that theramore was neutral when we all know that wasn’t true (probably the writer forgot or something like that)
Then in dala she stated that dala was neutral and tried to work with the sunreavers but then storaged the divine bell in darnassus so the horde can’t use it. (making that a target of the war)?"
to me it was simply impossible to keep neutrality when you have someone who is trying to use every weapon possible to conquer the world.
Yeah i have no issue with her siding with the alliance against garrosh, it’s just claiming neutrality while siding with the alliance that irks me.
As for well written hypocrites, they’re normally characters your meant to dislike, rather then like. And there is something just fun about having a completely hatable foe.
I’ll never understand why people seem okay with actually giving saurfang his “Honorable Death” that he craves.
Like is it really a punishment if said individual is asking for it at every turn?
If you really wanted to punish him for his crimes you’d do probably the worst thing that an orc could imagine and that would be to not let him have death by combat…or lock him in the cell illidan was put in if you’re sadistic for that justice route.
But can you blame Jaina? She has always been pro Alliance that’s for sure but that doesn’t mean she never stopped trying her best to keep good relationships with the Horde. Sadly groups from both factions made it impossible to end the war even as back as vanilla.
As for the OP I’m kind of in the middle about Saurfang. He will forever be guilty for the crimes he has done but that status as guilty applies only in my eyes because I’m the victim. For the Horde I can see how he has been able to accomplish many deeds benefitial to his faction. If he keeps on his track record I’ll want nothing more that his head for what he has done. On the other hand if he accepts his crimes and make amends trying to right what he did wrong for Night Elves I can see myself sparing his life.
The way Horde players feel or would want to do with him is a totally different story and it’s up to them the choose the one that suits the better.
All I gotta say is it’s kinda hard for people to not call you a hypocrite if you yell neutrality from the rooftops, but seemingly at every turn into the dark ally people see you help one side over the other.
Claim neutrality yet aided the Night elfs when it was probably none of her business.
Troops/ people constantly hostile to one side.
Leader of Dal yet works with one side almost exclusively and even uses neutrality resources to transport the Divine Bell to Alliance. Yet gets pissed when Horde do the same.
It’s essentially like if you claim to be neutral yet under the table people can see you handing Grandblade Holy artifacts knowing me and him are at war or in constant conflict yet you never seem to do the same thing for me.
She sent troops into horde lands, blockaded a port allied to the horde, and and troops raze a horde settlement on faulty military information. All those were aggressive acts that probably did warrant a response. If you actively give aid to one side of a conflict, you aren’t neutral unless they’re paying you for resources and weapons, and even then, don’t be surprised if your attacked for it.
Jaina claiming that she was neutral and theramore was an act of horde aggression is stupid because she had been one of the main forces in fighting the horde in cataclysm. You didn’t need to make Jaina neutral to have Garrosh Mana-Nuking an entire city evil, you just needed garrosh nuking an entire city.
i don’t think she truly blames jaina but rather the writter who made it do that, i don’t think that it would be too much a problem if she simply didn’t said that she was neutral but rather that she had no choice but to help the nelfs, otherwise she would be a s*** ally.
None of her business? as part of the alliance it was her duty to defend the nelfs or she would truly be a traitor of the alliance.
She had desertors that wanted to take her out from power because they wanted war and she didn’t.
isn’t dalaran duty to safeguard dangerous artifacts?
the kirin tor wasn’t planning to use it, garrosh did.
The part of getting angry is the part that she did the best she could to prevent war but different circumstances that she had no part on it made it impossible, and that she also blamed herself more than anyone. so the character comes with huge frustration transtalated into hatred.
If it was being kept at dalaran, sure, that makes sense.
It being kept in darnassus I feel undermines the claim. Yes as far as we were aware the night elves had no intention of using it, but if they did, they would have it in a super secure city right near the horde capital. As for her helping the alliance in cataclysm, that is A-OK by me, just don’t have her claim neutrality, as there is a big difference between wanting peace but knowing you have to fight, and being neutral.
No, this is what i think that happened.
She wanted cooperation to prevent garrosh from getting a dangerous weapon of mass destruction.
She thought that the best way was to keep it in darnassus because it would be even more secured.
garrosh was trying to conquer the world anyway.
everything went south because she wasn’t counting on another traitor doing his thing.
i mean, would that be wrong? the alliance at the time was losing the war. but i think that she knew that the alliance wasn’t going to use it.
makes me wonder what would have happened if the alliance stealed it instead would she have cut the bonds with the alliance?
you know what? i think the writter did it on purpose so the red team can hate it. it seems like it worked.
that is why nathanos himself mocks about this during the stormwind extraction.
Smart blizz.
