With the buff it got, and with some more gear and the final conduits, I’m safely doing my part in raids, and even sometimes doing bonkers DPS.
Now, with the extra 3% coming soon, sure to say I’ll be even more pleased. The whole beginning of this xpac was a weird, rough road. Went to Venthyr, switched cov’s to Night Fae for Fire, didn’t do good in Fire, and back to Venthyr in Frost spec and having a blast.
Whew.
And no, PvP Frost is still screwed. Probably the worse 2s spec in the game.
Not sure you should celebrate before seeing what the … 3% ? buff will do lol.
Fire is still the meta spec, both in PVE and especially in PVP
meanwhile my damage still stickles people in pvp for the most part without spark
The 9% buff a few weeks ago brought frost from dead last to middle of the pack. Another 3% will arguably put it close to fire in raid. Fire will still be better in m+ but frost will do just fine assuming you aren’t grouping with elitist who think spec > skill (ah, the pug life). As for pvp…I don’t pvp so I have no idea there.
based on warcraft logs, i wouldn’t say frost will be close to fire in terms of castle nathria come reset. maybe for normal or heroic, since people ignore mechanics in those modes, but i’m unsure about mythic.
while there are some mythic fights where frost shines (like huntsmen and inerva), there is a huge jump between fire and frost in the final three bosses, which are arguably the bosses that matter the most for progression.
i don’t see 3% fixing that.
All it took was a 12% overall buff and you guys finally stopped whining. Cool.
Good info for future reference
I mean, frost was way more than 12% behind, so… yeah.
These % buffs feel so lazy to me, such a copout instead of actually fixing things like useless covenants etc
How about we reverse what happened and Fire got nerfed to the ground 2 weeks b4 Xpac to be last in the logs for 4-5 weeks in the raid and not even buffed in the first tuning pass ?
What would you say ?
The 12 % buff itself after nerfing frost to the ground 2 weeks b4 XPAC clearly means Blizz either has no clue what they are doing, or they are simply in love with fire.
Yet it was perfectly fine for Fire to be bottom tier during beta.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201110075906/https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/dps-rankings-tier-list
More than that, when we raised issues with Fire being bottom, this is what you had to say:
I don’t care to respond more than this. I’ll leave the evidence there and have people judge for themselves on who the bad actors on this forum are.
I stated facts.
Noone can refute that fire is the top spec now and has been for quite some time.
Are you reacting like this because you are scared of fire nerfs ?
I did not ask for any mage nerfs, just buffs to balance specs.
I mean 95% parses for Fire in Mythic raid as of last week when I check is telling you something no ?
Nope. Most of the arguments for nerfing fire don’t have any substance to them to begin with.
Yea, but you’ve also been taking jabs at fire since beta, even when it was down.
How about I normalize by ilvl:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/#dataset=95&sample=7&bracket=16
Frost is looking pretty good. Getting back to where it was in November.
Also we were wrong about Fire in November since it didn’t receive much of any buffs during that month. It was a perception issue because Frost was doing much better than Fire/Arcane and simply being played the most. Kind of like what’s happening now with Fire.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/#dataset=95&sample=7&bracket=16
474 parses frost vs 14,715 for fire ? Thank you for confirming I was right.
Frost needed those buffs and Blizz confirmed so too.
But a 3 % buff won’t changed the short term overall picture of the community opinion for some time, especially when you pug M+
If I was playing Fire, I would just not talk and encourage Blizz to buff especially Arcane.
So a lot of mages haven’t caught on to the new meta yet. Big deal. They will and Frost will be top for raiding. I’m happy for Frost mages.
Yea. They did it the right way too. Many were complaining that it wasn’t going to be enough. I think the 3% is going to be the tilting point where it’s actually overtuned. We’ll see though. I hope it is enough to put Frost as the undisputed top mage spec for raiding. Then I can watch Fire mages sink to the bottom, confirming a lot of how these logs work. It will achieve pointing out bias in these logs in terms of perception and skill level.
M+ is a separate issue. They need to put AOE caps for everyone or remove them. AOE caps for everyone makes content more controlled though. So I’m expecting AOE caps for Fire. Fortunately, this is only affecting the very top % of players. Won’t affect the majority of players one bit in terms of DPS, but it will probably alter perception. Perception only matters because people are ignorant and want to be carried.
Or what? Karma? I’ve said nothing that would give bad karma anyway. I’ve only argued for the sake of arguments making sense. There’s a lot of “nerf this because I feel it’s busted” and then when asked for their logic/reasoning and specifics, they have nothing.
The only reason why I’m tilted on this forum is because even when I use a poster’s own words that are completely contradicting what they are saying, they will still defend their stance as if there is no issue.
The original poster said they are happy to be pulling their own weight in raid after the buff(s). I didn’t see any indication of it needing to turn into A N O T H E R “fire is top dps spec” back and forth between the same 4 people.
The 9% felt great I agree! That extra 3% is going to feel even better.
I hope it is enough to put Frost as the undisputed top mage spec for raiding.
why would you want frost to be the undisputed top mage spec for raiding?
i thought the whole point was for all three specs to be fairly balanced for raiding, but instead it’s just wanting frost to replace fire as the top spec? :S
There are other ways they could have done it that would have solved fundamental problems with the spec. Frost lags in single target damage, a blanket buff is just lazy. Fixing ice lance proc munching or looking at the glacial spike talent would have been better but right now I don’t think the dev’s have the time or the inclination.
Yea, I think having things fairly balanced for raiding is ideal. I only want to see Frost overperform to prove a point about how perception affects the DPS rankings. For example: do people start seeing the other specs worse all of a sudden and not bring them?
I agree. I was coming from the perspective of slowly providing buffs. Introducing damage gradually until hitting the right mark. I wasn’t really thinking of ways to buff the class that require more effort (usually only happen during major patches). My bad for not clarifying. To be fair, I was really only responding to the post I was quoting. Speaking of this:
I agree. I apologize that this thread got derailed. Guess I need to just ignore the fire mage haters. I’m happy that frost is in a good spot.
You mean like 8.02?
Been there done that
on paper frost single target is already above fire. frost’s issue isnt as much a problem of pure damage, it’s a combination of number of stand-still casts needed for bolt hoping against badluck protection-less rng that you get a proc and that it’s not at the same time as a Different proc that using together voids out.