Sargeras ripped the sigil out of Zovaal's chest

You’re using unreliable narrators to make assumptions and I’m just making educated guesses so neither of us are right or wrong until the game actually shows us the truth.

The Primus said that they had stopped Zovaal and we’ve been told Zovaal betrayed them, they never said who ripped the sigil out of his chest and cast him into the maw. They also never said that the maw wasn’t his original covenant realm, which it very well probably was because Zovaal is surprised when the player (empowered by azeroth and who has also been empowered by the titans before when fighting Argus) can activate the transporter to escape the maw, and fulfill the maw-walker prophecy. Zovaal calls the transporter “a relic of the first ones.” So It’s very possible the first ones created the cosmos, with everything including the mortal realm, shadowlands, light, void, etc. as that “fractal” force that creates infinite layers and infinite truths.

If Elune can be the Winter Queen’s sister, why can’t the titan pantheon also be her siblings? We know Elune has empowered many other night warriors before and there are several night warriors in game in Ardenweald, Maldraxxus, and Revendreth, and possibly Bastion.

I’m not entirely sure how wild gods and dragon aspects go to Ardenweald when they die to begin their cycle of rebirth. Unlike normal mortals like humans, they become wildseeds and are reborn, it’s entirely possible they have a direct connection to the Shadowlands and Ardenweald and do not need to be ferried by ascended kyrians or even judged by the arbiter because they are directly connected to Ardenweald.

If the First Ones created the Shadowlands, couldn’t they have also created the mortal plane of existence as well to supply the Shadowlands with anima? What if the First Ones created the Titans along with the other cosmological realities, and the First Ones were eventually killed by their own creations?

It seems too coincidental that a “death titan” would be datamined, and then Sylvanas, working with the jailer, created all the war and death in BfA just when the Arbiter (the machinery of death, aka the titan construct built to supply anima to the various parts of the shadowlands) wasn’t working anymore.

I think the titan pantheon and the eternal ones are the same thing just in different parts of the cosmos. We know the Light and the Void and the Legion have all attacked the shadowlands before. We know Elune is the Winter Queen’s sister. We know that Ion said in an interview that the eternal ones are “titans ++” and it’s not much of a stretch to say that Elune and the titan pantheon and the eternal ones are all “siblings” and call each other brother and sister. They came from the same thing, probably the first ones.

I can understand why people think all of this is way too complicated and I agree that this grand tapestry of lore isn’t given enough direct attention in game and there are way too many cliffhangers dripping out small hints of answers that only leave more questions but honestly, I think my theory here could 100% end up coming true and we may very well see the titan pantheon, including sargeras and illidan, by the end of this expansion.

They’ve confirmed that Shadowlands is setting the stage to explore the cosmology chart of WoW.

The Primus said the Ancient Ones stopped Zovaal, and we know who the Ancient Ones are. They are the Archon, Sire Denathrius, the Winter Queen and the Primus. Zovaal states that they ‘stole’ something from him, and after viewing the 9.1 cinematic it’s painfully obvious what that thing was, the Orb that powered the Arbiter.

Because Elune is not a Titan. She’s an Eternal One. On par with the Titans in terms of power, but the Titans were not created by the First Ones. We know they were created from planets with world souls within them.

Why won’t it let me like this twice?

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The primus only said they stopped him, you are jumping to conclusions here.

We still do not know exactly who ripped Zovaal’s sigil out and made the Arbiter with it.

It’s heavily implied that Argus’ death at the end of Legion broke the Arbiter.

We still do not know what Elune is. We know she can speak to mortals and give them the power of the night warrior. We know Elune taught the Night Elves titanic words like “Kalimdor.” We know that an actual titan, Eonar, was hiding on “Elunaria” from Sargeras, possibly because she’s the sister of Elune and knew Elune would help hide her from the burning legion…

It’s unconfirmed theories at this point but again I want to remind you that you are jumping to conclusions and false narrators are a very common trope in writing when you want to hide major spoilers from the reader/viewer. It could very well end up being that Elune and the titans and the ancient ones are all siblings and all know each other and have either worked and or fought with each other in the past and could do so again.

you mean Grim batol?

I’m really not.

The First Ones are not present in the Shadowlands. This is why Zovaal responds with the line “A relic of the First Ones.” when you activate it. Because by this time all that remains of the first ones are the structures they left behind after they created the Shadowlands, or rather, repurposed it. We know that Ardenweald existed long before the Winter Queen turned it into what it is when we go there.

So unless there’s some other hidden diety that was present during the fight between the Ancient Ones and Zovaal and that hidden diety ripped out the orb, then it’s painfully obvious that the job was done by the others. It makes sense. Zovaal was the OG Arbiter. It was his job to send souls to their determined afterlives, but he saw the sigils that were given to them by the First Ones to be keys to forbidden knowledge, so he attacked the others and tried to take their sigils by force.

They united, fought him, ripped the orb from his chest to weaken him (which also removed his sigil) and then cast him into the Maw. But since he was the OG Arbiter, they needed a new one to do the duty that Zovaal was originally put there to do, so they created the Arbiter, powered by that orb/sigil, and things went back to normal at least until the events of BFA when something crashed into the Arbiter and broke her.

Could it have been Argus? Impossible to say at this point.

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We haven’t finished killing off all the Black Dragons yet - we still have to clean out Baron Sablemane’s forces… Also since the Helm of Domination is gone, why hasn’t the Scourge run rampant across the world yet?

How about we add another class which use ranged weapons: Inquisitors! The three specs could be: Ordo Hereticus (anti-humanoid), Ordo Xenos (anti-anything-not-humanoid), Ordo Malleus (anti-demon). Hell, make their Ordo Xenos the tank spec, and give them cloth armor, making them the first cloth tank!

For the Emperor!

Ion has referenced a “clockmaker” in an interview, and now we have Zovaal with all 5 infinity sigils opening a fractal portal, probably to go to the sepulcher of the first ones.

It could be that the first ones created the cosmos, or at least connected all the different parts of it with a kind of infinitely layered fractal reality.

The titans, Elune, Primus, Winter Queen, Denathrius, and Zovaal could all be siblings created by the first ones.

Maybe the shadowlands was already there but then the realities were connected by the 7th force, the first ones maybe, and then the universe was “ordered” by the titans and the ancient ones.

Elune is a wildcard and there way too many unkowns about her still.

The implication that the death of Argus, datamined as the death titan, broke the machinery of death and the revelation that Elune is the Winter Queen’s sister and us finding Eonar on Elunaria all leave the possibility that the titans are very much aware of the shadowlands and the rulers of it and have been involved with it before. We know the Legion invaded Maldraxxus and was stopped “at great cost.”

I’m just saying there are a lot of hints out there that could bring a lot of puzzle pieces together and reveal that Sargeras and the rest of the titans may have helped stop Zovaal and we may actually see the titans and Illidan again in the Shadowlands expansion.

edit:
replying to a different comment,

That would instantly get them sued by Games Workshop. They are crazy protective of their IP and they won’t even let people use small parts of 3D printed models in official tournaments now lol.

It’s not. We were told in questing that Denathrius caused the drought and that red thing that struck the Arbiter was Remornia. If you listen closely to that cinematic you can even hear the howling noise that’s become iconic to Remornia.

Argus is not canonically bound to Death by the way. That was just his file name, but it’s not his actual identity since that was never written in the lore.

Side note: the Titans have like zero knowledge on the First Ones. Also, if the Eternals did kill the First Ones, then why the heck are they so dead set on following “The Purpose?” Why in the world are they making sure Oribos does not fall? Why would they protect what the First Ones built?

You do realize the whole thing Zovaal wants to do is destroy all that the First Ones built right? So why the heck would the others be against him if that’s what they want too?

This theory doesn’t make sense.

I’m sure Blizzard could convolute the whole thing in the process of creating their copycat version - we DO have a precedent after all:
Gahz’Rilla - Godzilla
Adam Eternum - Prince Adam of Eternia, dressed as He Man
Franklin Martin - The Transporter, Chauffeur
and literally dozens more…

Hell, they could get away with making Robo-Undead with Reactivation Protocols as a copy of the Necrons…

I just watched the cutscene on my phone with the volume blasting and that’s not Remornia.

Why would Remornia appear in the stream of souls coming from the mortal realm to hit the Arbiter? Why doesn’t the Arbiter have any physical damage?

That howling noise you hear is the sound effect present throughout the entire cutscene which is conveying the souls constantly rushing through the air into oribos and past the Arbiter before they are sent to different realms of the shadowlands. The giant red soul of Argus clearly comes from the same place all the other souls are coming from: the top of the giant vortex of souls where mortal souls from the mortal plane enter the Shadowlands.

What canonical lore are you talking about… We just have the raid journal text and the post raid cutscene and his name: Argus The Unmaker

Nobody has any idea what the first ones are or where they are or what happened to them so again, you are stating things as gospel truth instead of just theorizing like I am and drawing connections and making educated guesses. There is no Argus canon lore so I don’t know why you are talking like this.

I’ll give you all the Argus “canon” we have right here, his entry in the Antorus adventure guide in game:

“Bound. Broken.
Eons of existence, knowing only pain.
A shattered soul, fueling infinite evil.
The master beckons. Rise… Rise!
Begin the end of all things.”

Overview:
“The Speaker has heard the anguished cries of the Unmaker, an emerald star calling out from the darkness. Little is known of him, only that his once-noble soul has been twisted by ages of endless torment.”

That’s literally all the canon that exists about Argus. So if anything, my theory about Sargeras making Argus to control the Arbiter and replace Zovaal isn’t that much of a stretch is it? Elune is related to the ancient ones, why can’t the titans? We don’t know what Elune is we haven’t seen her. We know Eonar was on Elunaria. I’m not completely making everything up without any previous hints here I’m just making theories. You are just straight up saying no, you’re wrong because Argus has no connection to the shadowlands and the canon proves it. What canon? You aren’t really being open to any ideas or theories here you are just being hostile.

Threads like this make me feel so stupid lmao.

Y’all keep up with this stuff way, WAY better than I do… and I’ve been playing without pause since late Vanilla. It actually amazes me how some people have the story in their heads whereas I, a total idiot, can hardly remember what happened last expansion let alone 2-3 expansions ago. I salute y’all for your diligence.

But for what it’s worth… and I do feel like a lot of people feel this way too… the story really is getting very convoluted.

Lol this story is trash

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I blame it on reading the wheel of time saga… at least twice each book.

Sounds just like it but okay.

Because it’s a magic sword. Did you see Renethal sustain physical damage when Remornia flew through him 800 times?

You do realize Titans don’t go to the Shadowlands right?

Because in-game he’s never referenced as the “Death Titan.”

No, it is.

Being open to ideas and theories doesn’t mean I have to accept yours. It doesn’t mean you have to accept mine. I’m just simply telling you we already know Denathrius did it since the Accuser literally tells us he did it.

It’s not possible for me to be any more bored of this storyline. We have reached peek boredom.

The writers have absolutely destroyed this universe.

In fact no really.

That has a figtg agaibst an enemy that put armys of nught elven and bronze dragonflight to death…

And then they assault the flying citadel of naxxramas, figthing agains a powerful resurrected foes, from big spiders to powerful death members of the silverhand, and one of the most powerful mages/necromancer in history.

But you where attached to the world, i dont feel that attached to shadowlands, or any new island, they add.

We have one character from Legion that had a short cameo during Shadowlands and it is no one but the big bear Ursoc. Following that logic, everything should have been working perfectly by the time we were raiding The Emerald Nightmare.

I’m not really sure wild gods need to be judged by the arbiter though do they? They don’t seem like normal mortal souls it seems like Ursoc and Ysera are directly connected to ardenweald and they just kinda float down there into a wildseed and slowly mature until they are able to reincarnate.