They really deserved a whole expansion, or at least a whole area rather than just invasions, so much they could have done. Course I’ve been saying BFA should have been explicitly an Old God expansion from the beginning (the Ghuun storyline was great).
Same.
Azshara should have been the final boss for BFA and N’Zoth should have had his own Xpac.
They deserved that much.
Dude seriously!!! I really think that BFA should’ve been just… the faction war. They should’ve fleshed it out much more imo. And then the next expansion should’ve been focused around Azshara, and the naga. And then, at the end of that expansion, Azshara should’ve been the end boss, and THEN the next expansion should’ve been Nzoth yaknow?? If they took that approach all of those things would’ve been fleshed out much more, or at least I really think they would’ve. It was super confusing joining in 8.3 because there was just so much going on.
How was she killed by Frostmourne?
I’m drawing a blank there. Are we talking before being made into a San’layn?
Light obsessed things? I don’t recall much mention of the light at all.
Memories of their former life would just interfere with their new job.
“‘forget me stick’ nonsense” Sounds like that bit might be changing after the events of the campaign and such. Seems like you’d just put people who didn’t want to forget in another job, but at the same time, you could just send them off to a more fitting afterlife.
It kinda makes sense though. We’re even specifically shown why with Uther casting Arthas into the Maw.
That makes more sense to me. Light struggling to hang on and Frostmourne still getting some of it…but at the same time why does the Light even care if he’s going on to Bastion and not a realm in control by the Light…that’s something I find weird with this shadowlands setup.
You can worship the Light your whole life and end up in Maldraxxus. 
It’d be interesting to have both Kael’thas and Arthas go back, add in playable San’layn and rebuild the Forsaken with them are the leaders. (dark ranger customizations too!)
Maybe I need to check that out again…I keep seeing people say this and I had listened to a couple when I first saw it posted and hardly saw any difference.
I’d thin it’d depend on how he left.
If his old body was found and rose from the dead, he’d forget it all.
If he returned as he currently is, then there’d be no memory issues. There’s also nothing preventing him from doing that. We know the creatures of the Shadowlands can leave and wander the mortal realms.
Same for Death Knights. Dunno why San’layn would be any different from either of the others.
Yes, he currently does.
I’m wondering if we’ll ever get an explanation on what The Maldraxxus actually is…the whole zone is a creature…is it alive? Is it dead? What was it? Did the Primus just find it and bend it to his needs?
Seems to be pretty heavy handed and not so “good”. I’ve been suggesting that shadowpriestess Seline talking to Faol to form an order of shadow paladins in response to the reports she’s been getting of the behavior of the Light. Why would you not take precautions when you hear of it attacking/destroying worlds and violating people? 
I agree, it’s overdone at this point and I don’t feel like it makes any sense.
That’d have been great.
Pretty much all of BFA involves Lovecraft themes and stuff he wrote about in stories, but man, I’d quite like a full on Void themed expansion. I enjoyed 8.3 but felt it was just a good start.
I’d be surprised if we’ve seen the last of N’zoth anyway.
She was killed by Arthas prior to being risen, yes:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood-Queen_Lana’thel#:~:text=Blood-Queen%20Lana’thel%2C,and%20transformed%20into%20vampiric%20beings.
" One by one the Lich King sought out those who had challenged him, and Lana’thel found herself cornered. Using Quel’Delar, she struck at him with all her might, but Frostmourne’s evil powers overwhelmed her. Through his blade, the Lich King chose Lana’thel to serve him in undeath as blood-queen of the San’layn, a group responsible for overseeing the Scourge’s operations across Azeroth."
Their entire zone is blinding, and I thought they used the light to do their bidding or something. I don’t pay attention or care enough to be honest. I personally disagree with the ‘interfering with new job’ thing, and their entire fiasco, but that’s just my opinion on it. I know there’s people who disagree on the subject matter, but that’s one I unwaver from, I sincerely don’t agree with any form of memory stealing myself. Kyrian in general are a big pass for me. Again, just a personal thing on that end.
I agree with his decision to throw Arthas into the Maw, so 
Also agree with Uther’s forsworn self aside from the working with the Mawsworn bit. Again, hate the memory nonsense, hate the ‘purpose’ nonsense. These are just my opinions, though, and yeah. Again, not changing, but not trying to change others either!
Unfortunately. It’s lore I personally hate. A lot. And what people say to try and get them playable. Big pass ><
Who knows, I like Mald, but there is a lot of interesting mystery behind it.
Yeah, exactly. And I’m not one of those crazies who wants light to ‘all be evil’ either. I like there being pure of heart Naruu, and I like there being controlling/bad ones, like Xe’ra. I don’t think the light should be one way or the other, same with any cosmic force. It should all be about how someone uses it, in my personal opinion. If someone pure of heart can use light, someone pure of hear can use shadow. But someone not pure of heart can do both as well - like the Scarlet Crusaders for the light, for instance.
Yeah especially now, like there would be inner conflicts of course but as a whole, let people choose imo.
Ahh okay. That makes more sense.
Yeah, it’s pretty bright. It made sense for my paladin (this character) so I’d went Kyrian on him. I don’t recall much reference to the Light at all. They’re pretty much their own thing.
Curious to see if they do much more with the mind wipe storyline…it just seemed like the route they went to get the old heaven/free will/fallen angels vs angels thing going. It’s one of the zones that felt very “Diablo” to me.
The way the memory thing is handled is odd. If you’re sent there and asked about the whole memory wipe and you say you’re not interested, you should be sent right back to the arbiter for further placement. There’s an infinite number of realms, if you’re not interested in the way that one works, then head on to another. Think that’s part of why it rubs people the wrong way.
Yeah, he blames Arthas for a lot, but it wasn’t entirely Arthas’s fault, especially with what we’ve been fed this expansion about the Jailer being the actual entity behind the helm. I can see Uther’s viewpoint, but Arthas didn’t deserve the Maw…yet. He should have been sent to Revendreth. His vengeance on Arthas by tossing him into the Maw is exactly why the memories of past lives are given up if you’re to do the Kyrian job.
Perhaps, but it’s also why Kael’thas could easily return as is.
Allowing them to freely move around the cosmos is weird, but it’s not much different from mortal beings roaming around the Shadowlands.
Something I think is stupid is the whole ceasing to exist if you die in the Shadowlands. What kind of afterlife is that? Some sort of cycle of rebirth would have made more sense. Die on Azeroth, end up in the wrong place/wrong time in the Shadowlands and meet oblivion. lol
Yup, kinda hope they explain the creature.
Yeah, I like the “tool” approach. The cosmic energy source itself, isn’t good or evil, it all comes down to the creature using it. That seems to be the way they’re going with it…you’d think Maldraxxus would be evil from appearance, but they’re protectors. Then you have Revendreth trying to redeem souls and such.
Kinda wonder what approach they’ll take with the Void. We were given the impression that N’zoth was testing/preparing us for something…
Yeah, see a lot of people complaining about explanding other races to be paladins, saying it doesn’t make sense just auto assuming they’d use the Light. Why? There’s other cosmic forces. If you’re using a different power to uphold the same ideals and goals, why does that make you not a paladin? Tyr didn’t use the Light and he’s upheld as figure of honor by paladins.
Yup, inner conflicts could be fun.
I think maybe they should have just gone with Kyrian being more like Kyrestia (the first one)…in that she’s a created being. She’s never been Mortal. More like the first Venthyr.
We are our memories, so removing those basically makes you cease to be what you were, so why bother turning mortals into Kyrian. Same could be said for the Venthyr…once redeemed just send them on to a better afterlife.
Maybe there could have been a better motivation/reason for souls to go through Bastion that could have been the breaking point to cause the two sides to argue or just leave that part out. Does a location based off a greek asthetic really need a judeo-christian style warring angels storyline? Maybe it could have centered around the creation of more needed Kyrian in the drought of anima that’s needed to create them. This causing souls to be left behind to haunt there worlds, where they were ripe for the minions of the jailer to pluck them away for his desires.
As it stands, if a soul was to have an issue with doing the job/wanting to keep their memories, they should be sent back to the Arbiter. The problem then is the Arbiter being broken. Even that could have played into it…well these people aren’t suited to being turned into a Kyrian so we’re going to send them back for proper sorting, but we can’t…so there’s a back up now…and that could cause some sort of issue.
Having souls turn into them was a weird choice…it kinda makes me think of someone talking about how insert dead relative is their guardian angel…but that’s not how it works with in the framework of their mythos…angels are a completely different form of being (often described as being terrifying), and it’s only within pop culture movies, stories, etc that one becomes the other.
shrugs I get the dislike for it. It could have been made to make more sense.
I don’t wanna be in Bastion!
Back to the Arbiter with you!
I don’t wanna be in Revendreth…
tosses into the Maw
lol
I still wish Odin, the Val’kyr, and the Halls of Valor could have played into things a lot more. I quite liked that theme.
In a setup like the Shadowlands where there’s infinite realms…having the option for a soul to say, I wanna move on to another place would do wonders to keep things interesting for a soul and to keep things from stagnating.
Indeed! I believe she rose the other San’layn herself, the Blood Princes at least. The rest is… unclear at best. There’s a lot of holes in lore.
Yeah that’s fair, if they showed more choice in the matter that would feel a little bit better. If people otherwise were entirely game, it’d be cool. I also wish like the shiny angelic idea didn’t just tie into that loss, like you could choose to do that, or work for them in other ways. Granted, yeah as you said, and with the story, they might be walking away from that, so there is that. I do remember them fighting the void, but that might be their forces of death fighting the void that was invading.
As for their aesthetic, I do like it for paladins for sure. I went night fae on mine because she loves animals/would adore shifting into a cat, but aesthetically, Kyrian works for her. I really wish cosmetics were not tied to covenant
I can agree with that, and it’s fair. I don’t think it should apply to every single person though, to be honest, like some I feel would have proper judgements, memories or not. The benefit of him having his memories, though, was that the shadowlands was alerted to Arthas and the scourge, which they would not know otherwise.
Yeah that’s true. It’s not like those Mawsworn just… kinda…were ghosts
Yeah, might be the ‘veil is broken’ thing at play so there is that.
I could rant about this ALL NIGHT! ALL NIGHT! Ugh I hate that so much. I don’t like the concept of perma-death in any instance though, it just doesn’t feel right to me. And I hate it in this instance.
Oh yeah, it being a big…fleshy…thing. I dunno, and the primus is interesting too. Doesn’t seem malicious, I hope they keep it that way.
Yeah for sure, the only cosmic force we see as being pretty evil is void, but I do like how void elves shift it into using it for good (and shadow priests too). We, however, have never seen a benevolent void lord, unlike Naruu, which we have seen some good folks (the shattrath one comes to mind, I think they’re pretty nice).
Oh this is another one I could rant all night about. YEah the light is all about willpower, NOT faith, so anyone can wield it. My paladin has no nonsense faith, she’s a sin’dorei that uses it for defense of her friends and family. A true selfless notion, unlike some ‘oh I gotta work for some cosmic power’ nonsense. The paladins I adore in game are someone like the Argent Crusade, who didn’t care who you were so long as you were there to fight the scourge! Death Knights? Sure, fine, so long as you’re against the scourge!
Yeah I wonder why they didn’t to be honest!
Yeah, that’s a quest line and world quest you get to keep doing.
Kinda echoes the void invading Revendreth.
Maldraxxus may be the one doing the invading haha…they’ve got burning legion gladitorial prisoners and I think a dark naaru as well…or maybe they took them while defending other realms in the Shadowlands.
I wonder why mix it though…why not go for the greek asthetic without “angels”…I guess they needed something for the Val’kyr to be patterned after…shame they had to write it in a way that they weren’t the originals.
Plus there’s so many other constructs in Bastion, why not use something like that to ferry if you need them to be unbiased and impartial?
I’ve got a druid I’m leveling for Night Fae, but then I’ve also got a bunch of additional alts to sort.
It’s a shame there wasn’t some sort of afterlife for followers of the Light.
Maybe one to do more with Elune.
Doing De Other Side makes me wish there was a whole zone for trolls, bit disappointed we only got a dungeon.
I was hoping we’d get a few more realms added as the expansion goes on, but I’m not sure how likely that is. Additional covenants would have been nice. Do away with the conduits and such to make it easier to switch between if you wanted a different one.
The two abilities are neat though.
I’d have liked to have seen a Maw Covenant…the armor sets the mawsworn wear should really be stuff we can get and wear.
Lotta good it did them though lol…plus that didn’t end up making a lot of sense…Powers of the Maw?! Let’s go join them…
True, the ones we fought in the intro quest stuff were readily butt kickable.
Yeah, still odd we are taken through a portal rather than loaded up in a ship and flown straight up only to end up upside down and crash in the Maw. The whole broken sky thing just seems like a neat visible. Having us physically pass through it would have been neat.
It does make me think of a TV show my siblings got me to watching…when they were tired of existence they could go into oblivion, but being able to wander through infinite realms could keep things interesting…not just one…UGH.
Yeah, plus he looks like a Necromancer and the Vrykul Runecaster guys.
I’m still bummed we don’t get playable Necromancers with as much as they are rubbing it in our faces.
I’m curious if it stays that way, but it’s also kinda part of the theme. Pretty much anything existing is messing up the nice void they got going, so I can see why they’d get annoyed HAHA.
I’m not sure how I really feel about the double sided Naaru thing.
Had shadow been an aspect of the Light, and the Naaru turned into a shadow thing, that’d have made sense…but why are beings of Light turning Void if they are opposing forces. Light/Shadow vs Void/Darkness makes more sense to me.
They could have N’zoth pop back up and be all “I told you so! Did I need to spell it out even more? Cryptic is our thing!” and we team up with him to stop something hahaha
He seems pretty cool, I like his posts on Twitter. 
Yep, and that makes more sense to me.
I guess some Val’kyr show up in the next patch?
It’s a shame the Halls couldn’t have been created as part of the Shadowlands instead of some space high above Azeroth or some such. It’d have been more interesting. Make it an entire realm we could adventure in and give us playable Vrykul =D hahaha
I posted these in the Dark ranger thread, but it was suggested I share them here as well. This is a Dark Ranger/San’layn mockup I made using one of the new Venthyr cosmetics coming in 9.1. I also used a modified Void Elf hairstyle (the melancholy style with some of the loose strands clipped off and the hair falling behind the shoulder instead of in front to give a bit less wavy look) with this as well:
And this one has a neat look with how the Blood Elf phoenix necklace merges with the choker that’s part of the robe:
They seem to be more Arcane based from what I see. Though that may be game mechanics for “Anima”.
There is actually a part of the Maldraxxas campaign that explains the memory wiping.
People who go there are only people who’s memories are holding them back. Like a trama or something.
That’s why Alexandros Mograine never went there. Because his memories only help him. And Uthers memories hinder him. So he was sent there.
I just wish that the thing that made sense of the entire Kyrian faction was actually in their campaign lol
Ah yeah I remember seeing it there, thanks for posting! That does look excellent, Even with the jewelry I complain about so much It does fit in this instance. Imagine if we got a bat necklace as opposed to phoenix if San’layn ever were a thing. Could be cool. I also love the silver/metallic aesthetic, it almost feels like an underlying hint of war/armor, which is something about the San’layn I do like, since they’re meant to be tacticians and war-like.
True! But I don’t like the idea of trauma being a detriment, personally I wouldn’t want mine erased. Horrid but I grew as a person and would be different without my memories. I suppose others would feel differently.
I guess that makes me Maldraxxi Or Night Fae because I LOVE nature.
I was hoping you’d show these off here…
The bit with Mograine was pretty cool. He thought he should have gone there but the little tour showing him why he didn’t. Still wonder why there’s not a Light based afterlife =P
It’s still odd in that memories are what shape us. Strip those away and we are something entirely different.
It has a logical reason for existing, yes. But it would suck to have as your afterlife. Especially when Bastion is supposed to be a reward for service.
Some of his lines are fairly similar, since the new VA is doing an impersonation of the old one. But a lot of his lines just don’t hold up imo.
Also, the replacement isn’t live yet. You’d have to check it out on youtube or the PTR.
I can’t get into Night Fae because you have to be a glowy blue ghost made of anima for the rest of eternity.
I was thinking the same thing when I was making that second mockup!
I really wish Blizzard had just made the San’layn an allied race in BfA. The setup was there… the demand was there (and still is). All they had to do was have the San’layn actually appear in the Horde story (since only the Alliance got to see them), and have the Horde war campaign include them in the same way that Magister Umbric was. It was truly a missed opportunity. 
The Filigree style necklace and armbands in silver kinda remind me of San’layn, though they would more with red gems. Sadly the gems only come in green.
Edit: Threw together a quick mockup of Filigree with red gems.
BfA as a whole, especially with regards to allied races, has the theme of missed opportunities. It’s something I feel like I could write a thesis paper on.
San’layn I feel were pretty badly treated. Teased as a potential allied race, only to just be treated as mustache-twirling villains for the Alliance to beat up and have a fit pump feel good moment. We don’t even interact with them at all on the Horde side, and they could be more than just one-note villains.
Kelfin seemed to be shaped up as an allied race, only for us to abandon them without a word. They ended up just sitting on the shores of Durotar, ready and likely willing to join the Horde…only to just perpetually stand there being ignored.
There are also races already part of their respective factions that either were barely there and acknowledged or completely AWOL for…reasons.
Broken Draenei have been requested for years and had a presence in Legion…only to be replaced by zesty lemon Draenei and their associated rep be given to an entirely unrelated race that appeared out of nowhere.
Ogres, where we had two clans of them within the Horde, made no showing at all. We even had a third clan join the Horde, where they just disappeared into fat air. Instead of getting them, who totally owe the Horde a lot, to spare a few troops, we instead break time and space to recruit AU Orcs who may or may not be busy with their own problems, may not be able to go back to their home, and be asked to stop everything to go and die in some war that shouldn’t concern them.
Wildhammer Dwarves, who have had a history with the Alliance, have a small part in BfA, but end up just being stapled to Bronzebeard Dwarves while Dark Iron Dwarves get added as a full race. They effectively get relegated to becoming cosplaying and LARPiong Bronzebeards and lose a lot of their identity.
Sand Trolls are apparently a part of the Horde, but we have no info on them and why they are not a part of the Horde. Are they any of the Sand Troll tribes that hated the Horde? Is it a new tribe? Are they just Darkspear Trolls with the skin color that happens to like Sand Trolls? Well the answer to that is actu-OMG LOOK SYLVANAS HAS TOTALLY AND UNEXPECTEDLY GONE ROGUE AND INSANE AND KIDNAPPED SOME LEADERS! WHO COULD’VE THUNK IT?! NO TIME TO WASTE CHAMPION! GET TO IT!
I could grumble more, but I’d likely be writing several more paragraphs. It’s even more frustrating to see the Horde Council get formed to give all members a voice…only to not give seats to every member of the Horde. Not to Ogres, not to Taunka, not to Hozen, etc.
Instead, we see Thrall and several other Horde leaders more concerned with groveling before Tyrande and the Night Elves in the Shadows Rising novel. Likely to try to appease the Alliance so that we can have “peace” before something sets off another inevitable war.
As someone who likes world building, it becomes frustrating to see such opportunities get squandered. I keep some hope to see these races and other requested ones get revisited, however. We’ll have to see what direction the game goes in future expansions to get a better idea of that, sadly.
Regardless, I hope we see that new character creation screen get filled with races people have been wanting. 
When looking back at it, it always seems to me like Lightforged Draenei and Highmountain Tauren were the first ARs they came up with, as basically “tricked out, premium versions of regular races”. I think that’s what the AR system was originally conceived as, so it was pretty much destined to be a letdown.
I feel like it was done because Legion was the current expansion and it gave people a reason to do content and grind rep for the 4 races you could pre-order BfA and play as once you unlock them.
At times, I feel like races like them would’ve been better introduced in a sub-race system that people have been requesting for years that could’ve been expanded going forward. It wouldn’t have muddied the waters in terms of new races (Like Wildhammers compared to the other two Dwarf Clans) and would’ve let several sub factions become playable in some fashion (Such as having HMT, Taunka, and Grim Totem options for Tauren as an example).
But, as I said before, it seems like a lot of game decisions get made for short term visions as opposed to long-term gains. 
As for Magni, I can’t help but think of this:
Funny thing is that I would rather open the door for him than set foot in the Maw. Maybe I’d find more allied races that way. 
