this is why I think they should’ve done communication better. This progression chain is better, but it was ignored all expansion.
It was very clearly stated weeks before the patch went live.
Yes. I’ve had to gear up under geared toons before taking them into the content I usually play. Nothing new.
This. When they released the information about consolidating the lower m+ levels, they said it was because there was hardly any difference in heroics and low mythics. It was a degenerative game play. So they made mythics feel like mythics.
Nothing has changed. Your gear progression is still there, it’s just consolidated into one spammable LFD form (which is what a bunch of people claimed to have wanted - m0 level play in a queued system).
M0 is your m1 with no timer nor affixes
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Mystgun, think about it for a sec… even Season 4 Heroic and TW dungeons don’t teach mechanics to players… they simply bulldoze the place. There’s little chance to learn boss mechanics. Now jump into Season 4 M0 from the Heroics where boss and even some trash mob mechanics are critical (Ruby Life Pool for example) and think about how many PUG groups are willing to go through multiple wipes when they’re used to S4 Heroics? Isn’t it better for casual players to have a smoother progression from Heroics to M0 and M2 where you can make some mistakes and learn without wipes? Don’t forget PUG players aren’t usually patient about multiple wipes.
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But why would these so called casual players suddenly need to do M0 anyways that is now M10 when Heroics (which are queable) are now the same difficulty as M0 and world quests also grant Drakes?
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Aberrus was definitely easier than m0, but not sure about Vault. The tuning is weird.
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Adaia, maybe we casual players want some access to harder content, like low-key Mythics? Maybe that is the reason Blizzard said they want more casual players to get into Mythics?
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Yes, out of game it was stated. Such a big change should be done in game or at the start of expansion when everything is fresh. Its like replacing your all terrain tires for drag tires, completely different experience.
And my point was about gearing up to do m0’s before you could jump straight into them from normal dungeons with little issue. Doing all content undergeared is a blanket cop out statement you made and you know it.
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Assuming I’m reading this correctly - I agree. If your judging content difficulty comparatively based on the item level it drops. Dungeons are harder for the same gear than raids are currently. They will pretty much generally always be if their tuned similarly by the nature of group numbers. 1 person in a 5 man dying from a mistake is 20% of your team. 1 person dying from a mistake in a 20 man is only 5%. There’s greater margin for error in a raid than in a dungeon.
Yes, and my point is that there isn’t anyone who can classify themselves as casual even from a time perspective right now that is already doing hard mode DotI. They have to have had enough time to get some gear and we don’t even have two full weeks in the books yet. That is not casual gameplay timewise.
I’m calling it +1 tho as a step up from 0 cause I have to. I have no choice other than to change the name completely to something dorky like Gamma and Beta.
If you honestly think Mythic zero is a brick wall you seriously lack a basic understanding of the fundamentals of PVE combat. You need to get back into normal mode and really learn how to play your class and how to handle the different dungeon mechs. Shockingly even in normal mode you can learn how to interrupt and also how not to stand in bad.
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Only hard parts of vault normal vs 3-5’s was raszageth imo. Even broodkeeper would be easier if you get the addon/weak aura to show egg path’s and learn the staff handling.
Normal mode teaches absolutely nothing. This is a fundamental issue with the games dozens of spread out difficulties which simplify the encounters so you have to relearn the higher up you go, or at least I do.
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No Felpickle, “normal” or “heroic” Season 4 dungeons don’t teach mechanics because people bulldoze the place in 10 minutes. It’s like a fast run from boss to boss.
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Unfortunately normal nor heroic modes challenge players in a way they can learn the fundamentals of pve. There’s no punishment, there’s no need to interrupt. Boss fights are over in under 45 seconds. I recommend doing heroic dungeons this season with a complete undergeared group that just hit the ilvl requirement for heroic dungeons. Its actually astonishing how easy it is. And this illustrates my problem of why the gap is so large because there’s no room to grow between the two, so you’re expected to just magically learn and struggle in an m0 and people don’t want to wait for another person to do that…
so if they can’t learn outside the m0’ and people won’t let them learn in, then the solution is to not do an m0 or to go with a guild group and well…at that point, we have come full circle.
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A new M0 is pretty much that, though. They don’t have the Fort or Tyrannical affix, so it’s really like running an old 6-8
This is kinda why I think they should just throw mythic dungeon mechanics in heroic LFD and tune it up a bit. Boss fights should take 2-3 minutes, and hit harder. just not significantly harder. I’m still amazed how easy heroics are.
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How does running normal dungeons teach a player to play their class well enough to skip across a 10 difficulty level gap between heroics and mythic 0? Normal doesn’t even teach players the mechanics in the dungeons. Sometimes I do more dispels in a normal or heroic dungeon than the healer.
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N Adaia, S4 M0 isn’t like old 6-8 Mythics. Those were my wheelhouse in Season 3, and I’m 100% positive M0 today is much rougher than S4 M5-M10. No, I didn’t have great gear, I mostly used 450-460s to do M5-M10s.
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Yeah they said the numbers of a 10 but the removal of affixes and timer puts it down to around a 8.
And your groups always had around 450-460?
I think they made the increase of difficulty feel more existential than it did before because it didn’t feel like a 0 or a +2 was any harder than a +4. There were these huge gaps of … nothing… between these difficulties. I’m glad they changed it so now every level you can accomplish FEELS GOOD to beat.
I think it’s better also because you can easily match with more players at the same skill level as you. At least it’s easier to do it seems. Before I think players were used to not having to know mechanics and getting through a lot until higher levels and then you’d run into sort of having to either carry people or fail.
There will be less of that with bigger difficulty jumps quicker.
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