It really isn’t.
Get heroic gear, some open world and weekly rewards and you’re really good to go for M0.
There is no timer, if people leave you can replace.
Rewards are better than former M0.
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wish i could like this more than once
You people aren’t listening at all. People face rolling a heroic and brick walling a M0. that’s not a gear issue. That’s a people issue. People issues aren’t resolved by just running face roll content. Smashing your face against the wall isn’t fun either. There needs to be a happy medium.
There is no reason to have such a large difference in difficulty between heroic and mythic at the entry point and then baby step the difficulties once you get into the mythic system.
It’s just assinine.
It’s kind of like being a drug dealer and giving away the first sample. That first level of difficulty should be a sample. It should be a little more challenging than heroic but it also should feel like hey, I can do this. Lets go! Next level and you keep getting that feeling while the difficulty gets turned up. Like frogs in the pot. Then you reach your happy medium where your getting rewarded frequent enough but your being challenged too.
Some people wont want challenge they will stop somewhere that’s fine.
But right now its turning off quality players who just aren’t overcoming this new barrier which is worse than the old one.
Learn to play.
Heroic rewards are the same as previous M0. What people did when they faced brick walls before? If M0 was the highest content they would do, just do heroic, it is the same. M0 is now M+ 10 difficult.
People don’t really read it.
M0 = previous M10.
You should play heroic instead.
No. Just No.
I should have a +8 to do instead not a 0.
Sir do you want to have a supersized soda? Nah I don’t need a 128 once drink… okay how about a small shot glass? You don’t have anything in between?
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It’s not good enough that they were playing at difficulty levels that these people openly say they just skip as well. They weren’t even really mingling with them. They are just disgusted that they’d be in any way related to them by touching the game mode they’ve dirtied up.
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Apparently, you haven’t read all that i posted. I kindly pointed out that the people you are talking about need to take advantaged of all the gearing there is from heroic, weekly, lfr, bullion and the flightstone upgrades. Then learn their class and learn mechanics. I took so many random people at ilvl 460 into m0 with me and had no problems. Some were even healers in the 460s. Heroic is rewarding 476 base level from dungeons lol not to mention what you get in the vault. It’s only the 2nd week for crying out loud.
My argument was with people that said they shouldn’t have to learn at all to play.
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Are you discussing reality? I am not.
I am just telling you how it is.
If you can’t accept reality, how people play the game is not the problem.
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Has anyone actually said that?
Or is the formula that having any gripe at all = saying you shouldn’t have to learn to play?
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+1
At the very least - this is the impression they give off. The discussions lack any form of empathy at all for any negative experiences that others are experiencing because of this change.
It would be one thing if those players won something because of the change and I mean something tangible. But they didn’t. Their just happy some people are being hurt.
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aboslutely there have been
Legionisbest
10 Orc Warrior30
Its so bizarre that so many of you have this weirdo-grindset-homework-mindset for a video game.
How about all u people apply this mindset to your REAL LIVES instead of the Mario Kart of competitive video games.
Like, who cares about becoming better roflmao? Given S3 was a massive success whilst being a joke, clearly not the WoW playerbase.
I’m all for them finding their own ceiling. But there’s a point where you’re lying on a resume. M+ is for group contributions. As such, the people I invite I expect to have a certain level of understanding. If you’ve got interrupts, use them. If you’ve got damage reduction abilities, use them. Know the dungeons. Dying to binding spear 4 times in a row because you don’t know what’s going on or what it is that’s killing you isn’t what m+ is about.
That’s m0. The biggest issue is people getting carried by others. It happens. I get it.
I think Delves in TWW will be what solves a lot of this for many people. I plan to use/experiment with Delves myself. But M+ will still be my go to. I hope the people i’m referencing will find Delves more to their liking and are able to find their “end game mode” in those as it’s more to their liking and they can choose their difficulty.
It is a gear issue. It’s what allowed them to do it in the past and what’s letting them try it now. Enough gear and you can ignore mechanics.
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Yeah, I have no sympathy for those people. So please don’t take any of my opinions as a supporting case for people who won’t try.
I’m part of a community of older adults gamers. By older I mean OLDER. I myself am in my 40s, I’m considered a baby in these circles. We have retirees who have great grand children. Disabilities that accumulate with age becomes a real concern.
You won’t hear me arguing that all players deserve access to all rewards. Or to remove KSH or similar achievements so that everyone can get those cosmetics.
But when you have create gaps in content difficulties as dramatic as what they did - that is a problem where it becomes borderline discrimination towards these players. That’s when I get riled up and argue for things.
I’m not in that situation personally but I play with people who are. It sucks when you had a way to gradually ease them through this to a point that was their pinnacle. Now it’s just gone because their pinnacle was in that gap that is gone. No amount of farming heroics is going to make up for that.
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That would have been better for sure. I’m really not hung up on the name of the mode; name the mode after Greek gods or types of cheeses or American muscle cars, for all I care. My issue is solely that there is no way for people to run the same game mode they’ve enjoyed for the better part of a decade at a difficulty appropriate for the group for any group that isn’t up to what used be a +12. I could live with the compromise of removing the timer if that was truly necessary. But losing the rule set along with the appropriate difficulty range that exists for my wife and guildies is a shot to the gut made worse by not being able to identify who actually benefitted from this change save for those who want to farm easy gear out of heroic.
Got it, I honestly cannot remember the last time a (then) M0 group I’ve been in where anybody died, except for the times when the tank ran boss to boss without bothering to grab aggro. I’m not trying to say you haven’t had those experiences, it’s just been so rare for me that it’s hard for me to appreciate how often it will happen. I do know for sure that it only takes one player that’s above average to carry the rest of the group; even if there are deaths, there will never be a wipe in such groups. That does make it tough for now heroic to ever reliably be a test of skill for players unless you form a party of players near the skill level of a heroic.
Yeah that’s always going to be a phenomenon of queued versus not queued.
Sure, but the problem is this implementation doesn’t care why anyone who was below the current level of M0. Whether it’s players happy to be carried sneaking into PUGs with inflated gear and IO or players that never PUG where the group understand the ceiling of the group. Both groups now have to ‘git gud’ or get out.
They sure can, but they are only going to gain gear from doing so. They gain no knowledge how to succeed in mythic dungeons. Then since many groups are able to zerg down bosses inside of 45 seconds, players may not even see all the mechanics a boss has on heroic before they’ve reached the gear level to step into M0, much less any of the mythic mechanics they can’t possibly see before M0.
They worked their way through the 8 levels of keys before M+10. Removing all those levels means:
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Mechanically the challenge of heroic will become trivial before many players have the gear required to allow them to succeed in M0.
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Players can only work on gear in heroic, not any mechanics that are only in mythic.
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Even amongst the mechanics that are in heroic, the tuning is so low that most heroic mechanics that become dangerous in mythic can be ignored in heroic.
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Many groups will have so much damage that entire mechanics based on time will be skipped in heroic.
And for all the players where their ceiling was below a 10 even in full gear from the season?
That’s why i said it’s like their new 5 man raid progression and in the end they will be better players. So many people begged for a real mythic difficultly with out a timer that even contributes to the vault and Blizzard responded. I personally think its pretty cool. I ran all of the m0 week one and it really wasn’t that bad at all. I even brought in under geared players. Still wasn’t a problem. Even had to explain mechanics in some, still wasn’t a problem.
Lets be honest once they introduced the tiered upgrades and you couldn’t farm +2s to upgrade mythic level gear, the lower keys died off as far as participation.
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As Briarkat said I also want nothing to do with that argument and would like to encourage people to get better. As well as be encouraged (sincerely) to get better myself.
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So stop advocating for other people.
You don’t represent them.
You’re making a fool of yourself arguing about something that doesn’t affect you.
You need to understand that the gear needed to overcome the “difficult” of the M0 difficult is obtained by doing heroics (if you didn’t have gear at all).
The M0 mechanics are the same and the only reason you could blast through M0 before was because well it wasn’t difficult at all, which is why they moved the M0 rewards to heroic.
Their “pinnacle” wasn’t anything really meaningful, and whatever their pinnacle was it is within the range of the gear they can get in heroics. If they want a good challenge (lol) they should do M0 and try it, learn mechanics, play better.
And actually they should already know these mechanics because they have been in M0 for the entire expansion.
Read the poem “First they came…” - the poem that happens to be engraved in granite on grounds of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.
No one is a fool for advocating for others. The fool is the one who keeps silent.
And you need to understand that there is a segment of the player base out there who has obtained gear through heroics whom are complaining that they can’t complete 0s. Gear is not the answer. Get Good is not an acceptable one either.
Your assuming the players in question played in any season where these were in rotation. And the whole reason we’re arguing is you and others seem to think people should be learning in 0s or heroics instead of +2s where they had been learning every other season thus far (hence bypassing the 0s).
Dude get a grip on life and grow up, such argument comparing to holocaust is shameful and you should be ashamed.
Well they weren’t able to complete M+10 before either. What changed here, just the numbers?
Imagine having to actually to overcome a bit of challenge in the game.
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Not ashamed at all - your calling me a fool for advocating for people. You sir are the one who should be ashamed.
That they removed +2 through +9 in difficulty… the whole thing we are arguing about.