Wow what a wall of misunderstanding. My point was excruciatingly clear and you still missed it. I did not state that all casuals are like me, I was rebutting the claim that casuals are all bad players that should put in effort. I don’t put in effort, I pug everything while stoned and watching YouTube, there is no effort needed unless I decided to go for mythic raids or high end m+, but I don’t. If I’m a casual and by their logic casuals are bad, what does that make them? In comparison to what I put no effort into, what they manage to achieve with their effort must mean they are worse than at least a subset of casuals.
Of LAST Season. Not comparatively. So by gearing up in heroics, which would put your gear above what a +10 would drop last season. So it is the equivalent of running a +10 last season wearing Mythic Raid and +20 key gear,
Just to be clear. You are misunderstanding what is going on.
M0 is currently the difficulty of a +10 difficulty in last season.
M0 is not tuned to be the seasonal equivalent of what a +10 in previous seasons would be during that season.
M0 Feels tuned high right now because it would be like people making the jump from a +4 last season to a +10.
But, with heroic dungeon gear this season, after they gear up, it will be like doing a +10 last season while wearing +20 key gear.
I was doing 15s last season. I am more than heroic dungeon geared on my 494 priest currently. This reply tells me that you are incredibly out of touch with the difficulty of 0s.
It most certainly does not feel like doing a last season 10 while wearing +20 gear.
I have been doing +2s on this guy who is 483ish and tanking them on my 480 monk and they feel fine. Almost easy. A rare wipe. Occasional deaths. All through PuG groups. If people interrupt, or stun. Without affixes, they are pretty easy.
I can see how there is a difficulty jump. But I was not speaking theoretical. By upgrading the heroic dungeon gear, you will be doing the equivalent of a +10 key in +20 key gear levels.
There are a few issues that have been touched on.
Communication: For a lot of casual players, they are ignorant of the changes. So they are going into M0 expecting it to be the same as previous seasons. Thus they are getting destroyed.
Gearing: Players ignorant of the changes, are going into M0 without gearing a bit. Less casual players can skill gap close the ilvl difference. Casual players cannot, so they get destroyed.
Gearing Part 2: More Casual players can quickly inflate their ilvl through Awakened World Content and LFR/Normal. Both of which greatly push that ilvl up. The issue is that the current tuning of M+ requires those mechanics, such as interrupts, Stuns, Moving out of the fire, or away from the frontal, which didnt really matter until LV10 or so, now matter at M0.
So yes M0 are harder than they have been. But, they are by no means bricked. However, I do agree that the difficulty ramp may be too steep for more casual players.
Mythic 0s while tougher than season 3s is still doable.
Mythic 0s are now equivalant to season 3s +10 keys.
Mythic 0s in season 1,2,3 were not challenging in the slightest. Once dreamsurge came out there was no reason at all to touch mythic 0s. You could essentially ding 70 go do dreamsurge and immediatly start grinding +2s-3s and then work your way up. There was no reason to ever run a 0 once 10.1 came out.
That is unequivocally not true. There are players across a wide skill spectrum that every key level would provide a challenge that could cause wipes. This assumption that every player was so adept that there was nothing to learn until +15 is absurd. If that were the case, we would have seen nothing but +3s from every key run until close to +15 and certainly no depletes. But we didn’t.
For you and the people you play with, this may have been true. But you could not be more wrong with the projection that everyone’s experience matched yours.
The irony is that the M+ system before this patch was one of the smoothest difficulty curve I’ve ever seen in a video game. How many other games had between 10 - 20 levels with less than 20% increase in difficulty scaling between the next level that you know of?
I’m still waiting on someone to explain how this is even remotely relevant to the discussion. Yes, the reason someone might be stuck in one of the ranges that was eliminated is a lack of skill. But that doesn’t change the fact that those players went from a level they could enjoy to not having one. It helps nobody for them to stop playing the game because an adequate challenge has been taken away, and many of those players will stop playing.
Sure, but then they had a single digit difficulty increase each key level up to like +15 when it become double-digit. The progression getting into M+ may not have been smooth, but then the progression moving up within M+ is one of the smoothest, if not the smoothest, I’ve seen in any video game.
The problem is that the gear required for the average person that was near a the current M0 is going to take farming out of trivial content for them for quite a while where they can’t learn at all. And then they reach M0 which is 85% higher scaling with an extra mechanic that can create overlaps with mechanics they never saw from the trivial heroic level they had to farm up to that point.
And then even when they do see success in M0, they only get one chance at a reward per dungeon per week because of a lockout; they have to reach the point of being useful in a +12 before they can get the reps at the mechanics.
Currently there are i believe 40 Mythic zero bosses. Thats 40 chances for loot through out a given week. That only requires u to run each dungeon. To have the same chance ag
T loot for mythic plus that would require you to run 40 dungeons. Git gud stop whining you can do M2 at 470 easy if you werent so bad.
But the point of me bringing up the lockout isn’t about just the loot. It’s about having a chance at loot while learning mechanics. The first opportunity to even attempt mythic mechanics has 85% higher scaling than the mode immediately before. A lot of people are going to need more than one shot at a boss to learn their mechanics, especially when we consider random targeted abilities, the ability for a player to die and the group still kill the boss, a healer being able to save a player with an external, or a mechanic where one or two skilled players can carry the entire group. But their choices are either run the dungeons without a chance at loot after the first or wait a week to give it another whirl.
always record your runs. you can look back at it and see what happened. maybe they got zoned out of the boss with positioning requirements.
wepaon ilvl might also have a significant impact.
had my Monk go from 450ish weapon to over 500 ilvl weapon and the impact was night and day. rest of the gear average is like only up 20ish ilvl
It is not though. M0 is basically a 10. I enjoy the challenge myself,the other option is last season where peiple just jumped right into 11 or higher,so this method seems better.
