S3 spriest tier set is lol-bad: SWD! Haha

I can’t even compete in mythic keys AOE anymore and it’s fortified week… I feel bad joining groups now. I swapped main to spriest from resto druid, which is never bad, and dang what a disappointment.

Season 2 was fun with the tier set mass shadow apparitions, but now season 3 tier set has shadow word death… Are you kidding? Increasing the damage of shadow word pain or shadow crash as a 4 piece bonus is an absolute joke compared to other class bonuses.

I sincerely hope the developers involved with this sad choice receive a “needs improvement” in their yearly performance evaluation.

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I feel like if Psychic link was at the old value of 35% this tier set bonus might actually have some decent AoE application, it’s just that right now it’s 15%, so the set bonus is… 15% of 15%… which is absurd

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I’m so glad I dropped my priest this expansion. I’m sorry but shadow is an abhorrently designed spec suffering from major neglect.

And while yes they’ve had reworks and quite a few adjustments, it feels more like blizzard is tossing badaids at them rather than sitting down and truly stomping out the issues.

Their effort seems low effort, and the tier set isn’t helping their case to the contrary

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Lets just not compare anything related to shadow with DF s2. It wasnt realy that much fun gameplay either…it was just overtuned and our utility was over the top with the dungeons involved.

To the current atate of sp…only if devs put that much love tot he spec like they do with designing the models of our tier sets this expansion. Because lets be hones …our set are the best looking ones by far…not only in DF. But the spec suk bols.

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Honestly I genuinely enjoyed the VF + Ghosts + PL gameplay loop we had going in S2. I enjoyed the time I had with it at the start of S3 as well before I got tier, even if it sucked.

I think ghosts should 100% be the cornerstone of Shadow’s AoE as one of the most iconic aspects of the whole kit going back to cataclysm.

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Nothing more fun than popping VE on a big kill and spawning a bunch of ghost besties last season, except maybe when extending the duration of vf also increased our haste in legion/bfa.

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This is my feeling with the spec.

I’m not playing it at all anymore but I genuinely enjoyed S2’s playstyle, and I really like the ghost side of the tree. I’d say S2’s rework was a success when it came to how the rotation felt - and I’d like if the tree got restructured such spirits are a cornerstone of the spec.

The SW:D side sucks, and IE feels really bad to play around as Shadow - I don’t know why they keep bringing it back for them. But the fact the tier focuses on it, and they’re the only talents doing any damage right now just means I’m not gonna be dabbling with the spec at all this time.

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I still have no idea what they are doing with our talents. They nerf them because of tier sets and then leave them nerfed, so we just get progressively worse, I strongly believe whoever is in charge of Shadow does not play the class.

The doubling down on mind bender and shadow crash play is atrocious and unfun.

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I still play shadow, because i have since BC, guess im just a masochist lol. I still have fun playing it and trying to pump as much damage as i can. But agree some changes are needed. Buffing psychic link is the main one. I still compete in single target, but mythic+ trash i lag behind for sure. Just sucks that most pulls are beyond 5 targets, sometimes more than 8, and our dmg falls off outside 5. Are other classes like this? Like chicken, etc?

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just dropping by to add my own perspective. because i think its quite different from the general perspective one often gets here. but i can just make a list of a few points and that might make it easier for others to see where they agree or disagree with me:

  • shadow apparitions are cool. if this was our AoE instead of psychic link, i wouldn’t mind, so i can say i agree with some others on the possibility of this

  • easy DoT application with shadowcrash, possibly easiest DoT application for any caster (mainly thinking boomkins and aff locks here), yet bizarrely worse than say Arms Warrior (Warbreaker + Thunderclap + Dragon Roar) or Unholy Death Knight, making it clear with just a few minutes of thinking that the best DoT gameplay in the game belongs to easy to play melee classes who also tend to receive the most Legendaries, and the fewest heavy handed nerfs.

  • i don’t hate SW:death proc gameplay like perhaps some others do, in fact it reminds me of free execute procs on my warrior, but the backlash damage is something no other spec has to deal with. i get the historical lore issue with this, but at the same time it feels incredibly bad that the more dps you do, the more likely you are to die in combat due to self owns, and that honestly seems like a failure of game design by this point in time.

  • old god themed capstones are interesting conceptually, but so poorly implemented in practice that its no wonder people are clamoring for yet another shadow priest re-work (for this and many other reasons).

  • i agree mind bender is pretty terrible. its not fun. i’d rather have some permanent pet honestly, something intimidating like the Faceless One summoned by Idol of Yogg-Saron (altho its called Thing from Beyond there, whatever). demo lock proves that a permanent pet can be both cool and still do decent damage, and honestly i’d prefer a shadow tree that was more like a pet vs no pet choice for gameplay, rather than shadow vs void, which we don’t even really have right now.

  • losing new mind sear was a horrible mistake, and it is clear in retrospect that forcing everyone to use psychic link, instead of GIVING PLAYERS THE CHOICE to use mind sear or psychic link, has just limited priest to appeal to a much narrower audience now, and that this design decision must have been made on the basis of who currently has blizz’s ear on discord right now, and it is sad that people with such a lack of imagination are the ones exerting so much influence on the direction of shadow priest currently. people who play this game, any class and spec, deserve better than what shadow priests have received during dragonflight.

look no further than the paladin and demon hunter reworks to see changes that are generally all good, or far more positive than negative, its just night and day compared to the awful treatment shadow priest has received. arguably even disc and holy priest have been treated better.

i never liked the old mind sear much but the newer one, which channeled much faster, and allowed insanity to be expended strategically, and the random procs which gave you a full one sometimes, this all dramatically changed how shadow AoE felt to play, and was such a huge improvement, its mind boggling how quickly the devs gave up on that, its like they could not see what they had on their hands there, and just threw it away, and now we are left with something much more bland. boring passive AoE.

the biggest choice now in the shadow tree is void form or direct damage. direct damage is only competitive now due to the current tier set bonuses of amirdrassil. every other season of DF, void form has been the only real choice, meaning then, and now, there’s no real choice at all, the balance is completely out of whack, and your tier set decides what you have to play. so now i am running dark ascension and sw: death procs because i have to, not because its a preferred gameplay choice.

which is not the same as saying i hate sw:death proc style and would prefer void form, i’m just saying that generally speaking when your talent choices are dictated by whatever current tier sets are, or really bad tuning, or short-sighted and misguided devs thinking that “forcing players out of their comfort zone is clever,” that’s not ever going to be the kind of game design that creates a legacy people look back fondly on.

it just means those devs are selfish, and whatever the status quo in the game is, is food for thought for the next generation of games, something to give other people ideas on how it can be done better, because the way things are going, its clearly not WoW that’s going to allow players to make the choices they want to make, in order to enjoy the game the most.

or at very least, not shadow priest as it is right now. in fact you can look and see at the havoc DH rework they tried very hard to make sure the tuning of momentum and non-momentum playstyles was very close in damage, so that players could play whatever style they wanted.

if i’m just trying to say something positive about how shadow is now, for the current tier, i will say that dark asc + mindbender combo being 1 min cds, feels good to play with. i really like 1 min dps cooldowns. there’s pretty few classes that have this. havoc has ~40 sec with eyebeam and essence break. demo lock can have 1 min tyrants if it wants. but i just hate mindbender so much, it doesn’t feel like a shadow thing or a void thing, its just this dumb brain sucking vaguely cthulu reminiscent creature, that as far as i can tell has no real connection to what a shadow priest is, like why is it even there.

give me my own miniature c’thun, i’d at least be happy with that, an eye blasting a red laser beam of death, some real old god power up in here, that’s what shadow priests would like IMO if we’re going to do the old god route for capstones

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VF and DA were actually pretty even during the latter months of Aberrus, it was the T30 set giving the ghost talents life and allowing VF to keep up, not the other way around. Void form was also solidly not the main choice in season 1 either, you could play either in keys but you pretty much always ran DA in raid.

We’ve played DA for more of DF than we’ve played VF and if you remove tier sets from the equation entirely then VF is absolutely behind right now. The T31 set isn’t forcing DA.

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you know the truth is, i’m suffering a lot. i wish my life circumstances were such that i could afford drugs this good. like you must not have to worry about reality at all. its just one of those optional things, and you can keep your head in the clouds all the time. that sounds like a nice life man. i hope you are appreciating it.

https (space) ://www.warcraftlogs.com/ (space) zone/rankings/34#class=Priest&spec=Shadow&region=-1 (space) &boss=10657

take the (space) out, or just go warcraftlogs and look for rankings mythic season 2 dungeons and aberrus raid, for shadow priest specifically. each page has a drop down visual infographic of the most popular talents from every logged player.

you can go here and see that every single dungeon in season 2 had 85% to 95% void form talent popularity. mostly it was 90% +, and just a couple dungeons gets as low as 85%. most people run several dungeons every week, i’d argue its the most popular thing to do, and while void form and dark ascension did vie for talent popularity in aberrus, that could be as simple as fight timings dictating when you need damage, and not really which one is more competitive overall, just what the fight allows you to get any damage at all out, and of course with dark asc being 1 min, that offers much more flexibility, and could be winning for that reason alone, instead of being generally superior in damage at base rate tuning.

its clear what people are picking in dungeons, and i think dungeons are far more reflective of what people think allows them to do more damage with greater ease. when a raid boss isn’t forcing their hand, almost everyone chose void form. if dark ascension was really so competitive, why didn’t people pick it equally as much in dungeons, as they did in raid? you can look at every dungeon for season 2 there on warcraft logs, and see the exact % popularity of every talent on a per dungeon basis. you can do it per boss for the aberrus raid too.

if you’re going to try and gaslight people into thinking you know so much more than they do about something, you should at least stop and ask yourself if 2 mins of googling is gonna make you look like a drug addled, pompous elitist, with holes in your neurons

edit: oh why am i not surprised, the numbers are even worse for dark ascension in season 1, easily 96%+ for void form in dungeons, and DA only picked for 3 of 8 bosses in vault of incarnates, again probably due to fight timings and not any reason of legitimate competitiveness. and this is just taking into account mythic level raid bosses too, on easier difficulties things might swing more in favor of VF due to people not needing to care about specific things quite as much. i don’t think you’ve done much to craft a narrative that what i said, basically summarized as “void form was THE way to play,” was in any way incorrect, nor my point of how amirdrassil’s tier set has swung the pendulum the other way since DA boosts direct damage, not dots, and sw: death is direct damage. you just wanted to act like you know more than someone else, but the data hardly supports such pontificating as you’ve attempted to do

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Oh dungeons specifically it was VF all the way in season 2, no arguments there.

Dungeons S1 was a fair mix. Raids mostly DA.

Dungeons S2 VF completely. Raids VF early on then after the nerfs to ghost talents in 10.1.5-7 we saw more DA in raids creep in at the top end when people wanted to optimise.

Dungeons S3 It’s unclear so far. DA feels better in most Tyra keys and VF feels better in some fort keys but there’s not really enough people doing higher end content to get a consensus. Raids it’s DA all the way except maaaybe we’ll see some VF on council later on in the tier.

Creative insults by the way! I’ll have to remember a few of those :stuck_out_tongue:

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Same here.

Popping VF and watching all those apparitions fly out was amazingly fun. Back in Shadow Lands it was even better because you’d mass proc a ton of ghosts!

I understand quite a few players dislike the tendrils/pet proc, but again back in SL I thought it was on par with the ghosts. The legendary for it was a cool concept, although it was stupidly random and weak at times especially when it failed to proc during boss fights.

I can’t say the mindbender pet is on par with ghosts / tendrils / yoggy mainly because it’s so bland. The current season forces you to switch to the mindbender spec and what’s worse is that you can never even see it lmao. It’s hidden amongst all the melee players or aoe spells; additionally, the mindbender pet seems like a cheap knockoff of the disc spec version.

It’s almost as if the developers focused too much on disc and rushed their work on shadow, as evident by the recent 5% damage buff.

I’m fine with the recent general priest nerfs - MD for example, but please fix shadow priests. I shouldn’t have to spec into deathspeaker to make my 4-pc functional.

Can just wrap your links in code tags (</> button in the editor).
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/34#class=Priest&spec=Shadow&region=-1&boss=10657

I’ll make the hyperlink for you.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/34#class=Priest&spec=Shadow&region=-1&boss=10657

I wish Talbadar still was a combat designer at Blizz. I wish any high rated long-time players were on an extended team as consultants because the pvp balance is so abysmal that it really just feels like some random designer/developer gets an email “Pvp balance updates please” and looks at some data and arbitrarily decides what gets changed for what classes but doesn’t understand the data or how to analyze it and provide meaningful changes.

And we can’t go without mentioning that pve balance constantly destroys pvp.

This is most evident with affliction locks, who have done the highest dps in the game in pvp for several seasons, and yet are awful to play and sub-perform. Why? because the design and delivery methods are awful. What’s been bliz solution? Just give them more damage.

Even now you see more demo and destro locks.

That’s a two-way street, though. Abilities priest has that are very useful in PvP but nearly or entirely useless in PvE are used to justify leaving priest without useful PvE abilities because they’d be useful in PvP as well.

Priest needs a ground-up toolkit rework.

They also need to figure out a better long-term solution to this. Having been on both sides of the fence, it just sucks