Ret without a doubt.
First time ret was playable in years and everyone lost their minds over it fr
6 Likes
It’s honestly not close, ret was hilarious
1 Like
that tuning literally brought a season to a hault. nothing can compare to all those day 1 ret mains.
RBG teams with 7 Ret pallys
Ret and it’s not even close.
Dh is broken in the sense that it’s disproportionately overtuned. It does too much damage and is too survivable.
Ret paladin LITERALLY broke the game and entirely invalidated hunters, spriest, moonkin, ele sham, destro warlocks, aff warlocks, and all mage specs to where it was basically impossible for those classes to win.
Dh itself is immortal and should never die and can 50-0 anyone in a global.
Ret paladin made itself AND its team immortal and would 100-0 anyone in a global during cds and DA proc.
Looking at numbers over the last two weeks, DH ranges from being in 60 to 82% of games with a 53% winrate overall and about a 66% winrate into non-dh teams. Overtuned? Absolutely.
Ret paladin had a peak representation of 95% with a 58% winrate overall and a 91% winrate into non-ret paladin teams.
I dont have any mass statistics on this, but in looking at a few dozen ret paladins in 10.0.7, we saw their rating go up by between 800 and 1400 points. Literally. Most dhs are inflated now between 3 and 500 points.
10.0.7 Ret paladin was far and above the most broken thing to ever happen to any video game ever.
2 Likes
They remained so strong that the nerfs didn’t really matter
2 Likes
not even comparable rets could dispel healers out of CC with jug dispel magic bop sanc and unhealable dmg
I remember rets shooting up 1000+ rating within the first few days of the patch.
It was truly a sight to behold on the websites that track PvP rating changes.
1 Like
Ret was still extremely broken after all of the nerfs and remained that way for months. Drove a lot of the community away. They lapped current DH even in the last 2 weeks of S1.
4 Likes
Ret was a little over 20% of the ladder above 2.1. That was the most busted a spec has ever been relative to numbers. After that, cata S3 sub had 20% as well, but there were less specs. DH is currently 16% of the dps ladder above 2.1. This still puts DH near the top of the list for all time.
3 Likes
ret nuff said.
As gross as DH currently is, 10.0.7 was about 35x worse.
Just for context as to how dumb that spec was.
DH does insane damage and is super tanky, but at least they don’t have a second set of healer CDs.
Ret had access to as much, if not more damage than DH does, was tankier, and their mere existence meant no one on their team could die.
Ret in 10.0.7 was the most insane thing we’ve ever seen in the game. I was Q’ing at around 2.2-2.5 at the end of crimson and i’m not exaggerating when I say I went 62 straight games with a ret on my Sarena. Was the most wild thing i’ve ever seen playing the game.
What about S2 ret vs DH S3?
I hate both equally
This is some revisionist history.
Patch went live on 3/21/2023. The first set of nerfs went out on 3/24 (after tons of complaints from the playerbase, was originally due to go live the following Tuesday). Judgements of the Pure was nerfed on 4/4. Additional nerfs went out on 4/5. Then even MORE nerfs went out on 4/10. By that time the season was ruined.
Taken from WoW Hotfixes - Updated April 18
March 28, 2023
- Retribution
- Developers’ note: Retribution Paladins have been heavily overperforming in PvP with their recent 10.0.7 changes. We’re primarily targeting their burst damage, passive survivability, and PvP talents that we feel are contributing too much overall damage.
- [Live March 24] Judgment of Light healing reduced by 35% for Retribution Paladins in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Inquisitor’s Ire effectiveness reduced by 40% in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Fading Light effectiveness reduced by 50% for Retribution Paladins in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Justicar’s Vengeance now deals 15% additional damage to stunned targets in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Justicar’s Vengeance healing reduced by 50% in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Blessing of Dawn effectiveness reduced by 25% for Retribution Paladins in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Divine Arbiter direct damage reduced by 25% in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Vanguard of Justice effectiveness reduced by 25% in PvP combat.
- [Live March 24] Empyrean Legacy increases the damage of Divine Storm by 15% in PvP combat (was 25%).
- [Live March 24] Luminescence (PvP Talent) now increases damage and healing by 2% (was 4%).
- [Live March 24] Lawbringer (PvP Talent) now deals 2% of maximum health (was 4%).
- [Live March 24] Fixed an issue that caused Avenging Wrath’s 75% PvP multiplier to not function for Retribution Paladins.
Ret remained S++ tier even after that huge list of nerfs.
April 3, 2023
- Paladin
- Fixed an issue causing Retribution Aura to trigger from incorrect amounts of incoming damage.
- [With weekly restarts] Judgments of the Pure (PvP Talent) now causes Judgment casts on an enemy to cleanse 1 Poison, Disease, and Magic effect they have caused on you (was allies within your aura).
- Developers’ note: With Judgment’s cast frequency increasing in patch 10.0.7, Judgments of the Pure has been overperforming as a PvP talent. In a hotfix being applied this upcoming Tuesday, the talent will only apply to the Paladin and no longer have its effect applicable to allies.
April 5, 2023
Classes
- Paladin
- Retribution
- All damage reduced by 3%.
- Instrument of Retribution duration reduced to 9 seconds (was 12 seconds).
- Fading Light - Blessing of Dusk causes your Holy Power generating abilities to also grant an absorb shield for 3% of damage or healing dealt (was 10%).
- Aegis of Protection increases the value of Shield of Vengeance by 10% (was 20%).
- Shield of Vengeance duration reduced to 10 seconds (was 15 seconds).
- Lightforged Blessing now heals you and your party for 2% of maximum health (was 3%).
- Developers’ notes: Retribution Paladins have been overperforming both offensively and defensively, so we’re making some adjustments here to bring them more in line with our intentions. Additionally, we have a hotfix coming at a later date related to Execution Sentence and its unintended interactions with various damage boosts.
- Retribution
April 10, 2023
- Paladin
- [With weekly restarts] Hand of the Protector now increases Word of Glory’s healing by up to 100% when cast on allies (was 250%).
- Retribution
- Developers’ notes: Retribution Paladin has remained more powerful than we would like in PvP. With this pass we are targeting its burst damage, allied support, and personal survivability.
- [With weekly restarts] Avenging Wrath now increases damage and healing by 10% in PvP Combat (was 15%).
- [With weekly restarts] Avenging Wrath: Might now increases critical strike by 10% in PvP Combat (was 15%).
- [With weekly restarts] Divine Protection now reduces damage taken by 10% in PvP Combat (was 20%).
- [With weekly restarts] Light’s Celerity now increases the healing of Flash of Light by 20% in PvP Combat (was 50%).
- [With weekly restarts] Sanctified Plates now grants 50% less Stamina and Avoidance in PvP Combat.
- [With weekly restarts] Blessing of Sacrifice now transfers 20% of damage taken in PvP Combat (was 30%).
1 Like
Maybe it was within a few hours of when I actually logged on the first round was hotfixed in.
The fact remains that they made significant changes to Ret within (I guess a couple days) with several more balancing passes within the next two weekly resets.
We should all hope Blizzard attacks all balancing as rapidly as they did Ret. Sure, Ret remained very strong after the several rounds of nerfs, but that isn’t the point.
The point is something shouldn’t have to be that broken as a prerequsite to do their jobs. They’ve demonstrated through Ret that they are more than capable of responding in short order, meaning therexs no excuses for going months between major balancing.
I told my team months in advance to reroll ret and when they didn’t I quit the game until the very end of season
DH right now is clearly overturned on both damage and survivability but it’s not broken
That ret overhaul was so, so unbelievably dumb
I posted in the Ret forums during the PTR testing and talked about everything that was going to be extremely toxic. My pleas fell on deaf ears.
i wouldn’t say that they have, no
the speed of their response is completely nullified by its insufficiency. if they’d come out with a few nothingburger hotfixes that didn’t budge dh from its current spot at all, this season would be exactly the same to play as it currently is but would have even slimmer hopes of anything changing
i’d even argue that immediately hitting an outlier spec with nerfs that don’t move the needle emboldens rerollers. the first week of the ret patch, hotfixes were “obviously imminent”. when ret was still the only pathway to a viable comp after the 2nd and 3rd round of nerfs, expected nerfs vanished as a deterrent and the floodgates swung wide open