Rune of power needs to go

Up until RoP was auto-cast with icy veins, Incanter’s flow and RoP were closer in damage.

(45CD for RoP, 12s duration, 2 charges). That meant in a 300s fight, you could get 8 casts off and the average damage increase was 12.8% (or 32% RoP uptime). Incanter’s flow was (and still is) 12% average damage increase. For that reason, most frost mages back then took incanter’s flow.

When the icy veins addition was adding (in addition to the icy propulsion changes), we were able to get 50% uptime (on average) for RoP. That meant that the average damage increase is 20%.

Unless Blizzard addresses the disparity, it would be better to just get rid of Incanter’s flow and either put in something to make RoP more mobile (self-buff vs. effect on the ground) or be usable again if you got less than half of the effect.

There are a number of ideas on how it could be fixed. Here is my short list:

Idea 1) Make it a self-buff (like arcane power) that you pop so you keep mobility.
Idea 2) Make it so casting alter-time when more than 75% of the time is left on it will add a charge or RoP back.
Idea 3) Increase IF average damage to be 18% so RoP still has the edge, but it is closer in damage.
Idea 4) Like someone else posted, have RoP move with you when you blink or shimmer.

There are so many interesting ways to improve the functionality of the ability (without making it more powerful or just removing it). That is the point of these forums. To voice our opinions on the abilities and classes that we use and play.

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What about being able to press the button again once within its duration to relocate it to your current position?

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All great idea’s to add to the conversation. What brought me into this thread in support of idea’s like this is the fact DF is adding many new external abilities that impact movement and some that impact CDR. To me that is an indication the game will move in a faster direction.

A few examples being:

Bend time - allowing you and your allies to cast their major movement ability once in the next 10 sec, even if it is on cooldown.
Zephyr - Conjure an updraft to lift your party members within 25 yds into the air, reducing damage taken from area-of-effect attacks by 20% and increasing movement speed by 30% for 8 sec.
Restless Crew - Restless Blades also affects party members within 40 yds, reducing the remaining cooldown of a major offensive ability
Mark of the Wild - Infuse a friendly target with the power of the wild, increasing their Speed and critical strike (not sure if this is movement)

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IF is probaly worst than RoP yeah.

At least RoP has a consept, a consept of… constraint.

Can understand that some love the “”“skill”“” check about it. and i say “”“skill”“” because i’m not totally ok with the consept of skill that requieres to just watch DBM closely or learn the fight on fingertips, when some classes can unleash similar or even better damage without a quarter of the investement.

That’s why i’m being too angry about it.
IF is like picking nothing, RoP is like picking a punishment.

The main problem with RoP is that it is so unsatistfying by itself, that you requires a DPS meter to see the difference.
For a class that have burst as ONLY core theme usefull in PvE, they had to make better than a “increase damage by a lot of %” mecanic.

My take on it is that it is objectively bad, whatever the opinion. It’s not a working consept, that’s why so many people hate it.

  • When you pick a talent, you should always feel like taking an obvious gain of power, not a setupable constraint
  • A powerful mecanic should also FEEL powerful
  • The rune being the most powerful skill of the mage is a SHAME, this is the defeat of gamedesign.
  • 0 Quality of life. Where pre-Mop mage was powerful as it, it is now a clunky setup and burst only class. I mean, yeah, it was always a burst class, but it used to not be a total
    mollusc when out of it.

But yeah, lot of those critics are applicable to IF too, actually, IF is probably even worst. But it doesn’t make RoP shine anyway. That’s still a talent point for a punishment. I want both of those talents gone. Flat damage is the most boring kind of mecanic ever.

Pity, Guys, just stop trying to give devs idea to “enhance” them. The core concept do not work at all, it never did, and never will, it is lazy implementation which exempts them from finding a real interesting idea of a interactive based mecanic. Base damage will never be interesting as gameplay mecanic. If this were the case, your fun would be indexed to your intellect

I very much agree. I don’t see IF as any more fun or interactive. Realistically it’s just a passive damage gain, which is really really boring and offers nothing that a baseline aura buff wouldn’t. Same goes for Lonely Winter really. My preference would be to have neither and just buff us baseline, but I can also see why there are those who may potentially prefer to have RoP as an option.

At this stage it likely isn’t, because so many other things need to be factored in. It’s not as simple as just deleting it and buffing all Mage specs by x%. To remove RoP at this stage would mean having to redesign all 3 specs, which Blizzard has shown they have no interest in doing. I still think that if it being kept in, it should become an Arc only ability as it just doesn’t fit with Frost or Fire.

they just removed some annoying skills for fury warrior to buff the base dmg of the spec, so, there’s hope…

We just need the mage dev to get in line.

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Even if RoP remains in the game, the tuning arguments against it have to be addressed.

A 40% damage buff with 50% uptime (effectively a 20% damage buff minus the GCDs to use it) is a massive chunk of the overall Mage power budget, power budget that could be far better spent on other cooldowns or even baseline spells.

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You are technically right, and all, BUT :

This kind of feedback could make them think that “It is only a number problem but the mechanic itself is ok enough”

It’s been 5 years + they did only tweaks this counter-interesting mechanic. And each time, it’s still a problem. It’s still not interesting. Because the core consept isn’t. And that will never change if they don’t take the problem seriously.

That’s why i think this kind of balancing feedback should be made later, imo, at a time when there is no hope for anything new.

This is my personal opinion, but at a time like this, where things can still change a lot, this is the time to ask for something else, very very different.

They should adjust the base and burst potential ,spreading the removed potential on the whole tree instead. I’m confident that with the right adjustments, the mage would still be very desirable where burst is necessary. They just have to put this missing power on the different burst actives and passives and a bit on the base damage spell of the mage.

I don’t know what to put instead of rune. Could really be something like a choice, but not necessarily, as everything seems like a choice in DF.

Could be a CC, a Damaging or Defensive (we already have alot in class tree) ability, or anything else actually.

Something like a black hole like in Diablo could be really fun and increase the number of classes that can grab and/or pack ennemies actively. Although Mage already excell in control, so could very well be unbalanced in pvp, by design.

An Arcane Ray working similarly to the Azeroth heart’s ray could also be really funny and satisfying, with the counterpart of still not being very interractive with the specs mechanics.

But it could be simply anything. Anything but something like a base damage buff. Forcing them to just kill our base damage to keep the burst controllable. Typically with a whole spell multiplier like that, every single spell can become a problem for balancing. Perhaps the real problem is actually the Rune and IF ?

I’m not against some skill that also need to be setup. The arcane Ray idea (for example) could be something like that, preventing from moving without cancelling it, and do increased damage over channelling time to make it rewarding for the risk. But this shouldn’t make our other damages go that low when out. As this is a self contained spell, powerful by itself, and preventing you to do anything else during it.

I don’t want my ideas to be implemented, i just wanted to show that skill that are powerful by itself and don’t boost your whole damage give devs a lot more options of balancing keeping the classe’s health good in every situation.

(Burst too strong or too weak ? Change some burst things without affecting direct damages)

(Constant damage is causing problem, just boosting them should not affect that much the burst)

They have to understand the RoP and IF are not OK. It’s been a lazy, unsatisfying and troublesome design from the very start and we are very aware of it. Each additional year feels like they just given up on working on interesting mechanic for the Mage or just don’t want to see how much people hate this from the very first day it was added. Personally, this day, i just felt they removed the Mage class i decided to play back in vanilla to replace it with the RoP class. It was like a betrayal.

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I dont think you realize how RoP works or why its so strong for how mages do damage.

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Correct. It is not fine as-is.

Thats exactly how i feel about RoP. I shelved my mage until its gone or has better competition as alternate talent

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Lately I have be playing an alt Mage, currently lvl 58, using IF. The mobility is amazing and it seems I am much more difficult to kill because I am never too concerned about not moving. DMG, well, keeping in mind sub 60, it is still strong (not OP by any means)

Honestly if they don’t dump rune of power in Dragonflight I’m not even sure I’ll play mage or stay subbed…

Maybe I’ll play evoker or whatever instead.

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If the Class and Spec trees go live as is, I’m considering shelving my mage for the first time ever. I really love what the ptr iteration of the Priest Shadow tree looks like, and I can put together a Shadow spec I really find fun to play. On top of that I’d have the option to heal as Holy or Discipline, both of which I am able to put together builds I like.

Right now I just can’t put together a build for my Mage that I am happy with regardless of spec (though I heavily prefer Arcane). I’m really concerned that we saw no communication or changes this week.

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How in gods name does blizzard see mixed feedback to skull banner, not even strictly negative feedback, and remove it but see nothing but negative feedback to rune of power over ten years and do nothing.

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If the rumors from exstaff are to be believed its because one person is in charge of 3 to 5 classes and that person might not be even playing any of those classes.

Blizz dont care about mages,during the first expack they nerfed us by taking away 10% of our total power,they do this all the time.rop is crap and makes us to use this be almost the same as the next lower dps.

And stealth. Don’t forget that in beta Mages had a version of Invisibility that worked just like stealth. When the game whent live it was a dmg nerf plus stealth removal.

Well… it didn’t work exactly like stealth. It was a toggle that constantly drained your mana while active so you could only sustain it until you ran out of mana. Still it was a lot of fun to play with back in the original beta. We also had Khadgar’s Unlocking to pick locks with, but that went away too.

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yeah, with you 100%. Even if they keep it, it needs to be significantly nerfed because it is currently way more powerful than anything else in the entire tree.

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