One of the forever-tank streamers I watched mentioned a rumor amongst content creators and insiders that the same guy responsible for the ret rework is now working on guardian Druids.
My question is: is anyone on this forum in the know on this, and if so, can you share and details? Can anyone corroborate?
My question is: what are people wanting with a rework? Outside from a few small adjustments, I’m happy with how Guardian plays. I don’t want it changed so much I have to relearn the entire spec
And all we really need is the talent trees points to be reworked to give us 2-3 more points ti make it feel complete (IMHO)
i hope there will be good news here, but what we really need now is get Frenzied regeneration off global cd, that one change is enough for me, 10.1 set looks promising so i will keep playing my bear
Class tree needs a lot of rework. Its a haphazard mess for all specs.
on Guardian tree, just needs better organization, reduce some talent costs, move some stuff out of top tier that doesn’t really below. But otherwise I agree, all the pieces are there, just needs to be sorted better and provide more connections and access.
Reduce the points to get berserk and incarn fully empowered. Move some items like RnT and DoC out of bottom tier.
I would like to see a something like Mark of Ursol just to provide some more magic mitigation.
FR off GCD as well.
A new identity. To be playable outside of trivial content. They’ve abandoned the whole “easiest tank” thing with the way the CDs are managed, maybe they could revisit they. Tie ironfur to swipe and mangle and then spend rage on maul or FR.
Almost every prolific tank (and especially ones known for guardian Druid) have put out different ideas. The biggest problem with guardian is its lack of self contain. It’s the only tank that needs a healer. They’re just too squishy on their own.
Removing the CD from FR and have it either deal damage or taken off the gcd, even to the half gcd, would be ideal, along with allowing rage to regen out of combat so that pulls can start with ironfur.
Fixing the talent trees would go a long way, being able a get a second SI and UFR. Thorns should straight up not be in the bottom part of the tree.
There’s a thousand ways to get there, but something needs to happen to make guardian competitive. Either bear buffs or nerfs to the other 5 tanks.
Agreed. Like you said, I think it’s all there, we just need some better direction or organization and point allocation for the trees and they’d be feeling a lot better.
People like to claim this along with “rework” but then talk about everything that is currently guardian. It’s not a new identity when you just buff them.
They have a lot of self sustain, but no one is willing to go that route with their talents.
The new tier set will double down on it as well.
But I will agree that bears are squishy in the sense that outside of constant active mitigation (which we have plenty to cycle through), we have no real way to dampen magic damage. Sure 10% through Moonfires or UF shields ( they need to remove or triple the cap) but it’s not the same nor near as potent as other tanks.
This would be fine if we had the health pools to eat like we did back in the day when that was their identity, but we don’t have that any more.
I’m all for bringing it back, but it’s gotta be noticeable. A solid 20-25% above the other tanks 
tying magic damage reduction to iron fur is bad and lazy and I do not agree with it lol.
Guardian has great bones and a solid foundation. Just a few minor tweaks need to happen.
I’m confident if we could squeeze out 2-3 more points in the guardian talent tree, it would shore up a lot of issues
Hate to sound like a broken record but…
Fixes our magic damage issue in a very bear way, gives us more tools to use, and makes the spec more fun and complex.
From there, there are ALOT of things I would do (example, scintilating moonlight works with Sunfire, or combine beserk nodes and move up 2 nodes from the bottom to make the spec tree less bloated), but those 2 would be a start and open up alot of cool things they could do with Bear while keeping the druid identity we are supposed to have.
Also, which streamer indicated this? Reliable?
He needs to work on VDH too 
Link here, go to 4:25 was where I’d heard it, but it was also mentioned in the guardian discord.
I’ve been trying to find corroboration, but nothing so far.
True. But the idea of a “high HP tank” just doesn’t translate well to modern WoW. Whatever our form of mitigation, it has to scale with incoming damage. We could have bears mastery give them more HP as they take more damage, but that could get janky. Not even worth mentioning that the “high HP tank” doesn’t have the highest HP. So our niche isn’t even real to begin with.
You can’t. Unlike warriors. Cropping and combining talents to give us ~7 more talent points and moving 1/2 the third row up into the first and second would be the way to go. I often contemplate what the cause of the issue is, and one of the things I’ve come up with is that perhaps their internal sims have every talent active or something.
UF single handedly carried guardian Druid to mediocrity in season 2 of shadowlands at 70% of damage. That was before a ~65% increase from mobs relative to the player. Math it out, for it to be as strong as it was in shadowlands, it would have to be at 115% of damage.
Who ever said we had to give up any forms of mitigation to get our HP boost? IF / RoTS / Moonfire / SI / etc etc still scales with damage.
Because we’re not the high HP tank.
Absolutely you can. You can take Elunes Favored / RoTS / Incarn / DoC / UF in a single build. But you’re sacrificing damage from the right side of the tree to do so. YOU CAN self sustain better than what you are, you just won’t.
You forget that UF works with Raze as well. UF’s biggest downfall is that it has a cap (and relatively low one)
Mazzerok is the YouTuber. His dragon flight season 2 tank teir list video
Our HP isn’t the problem right now. It’s the fact that we can’t mitigate damage. Fort pulls in a 23-24 require world class group coordination while a warrior Pally can just block and be fine. No CDs. And more HP doesn’t scale with incoming damage. Our active mitigation, if you can call it that, is the weakest of the lot and is the only one completely bypassed by magic/bleed damage.
That’s the problem. We’re not the anything tank. We’re the average Joe at the NFL combine. I just used that as an example because at one point that was the identity, now referenced only in the flavor text we call Mastery now.
No, you cant. That build is weaker offensively and defensively then the either the standard GG or NoCarn builds.
Yeah this isn’t true at all. Hyperboles and exaggerations do not make for compelling arguments.
So while it doesn’t “scale”, it still acts as a damage reduction (in a sense) until that damage overtakes that increased health. And it takes quite a little for that to happen.
DK: Bone Shield: extra armor. completely bypassed by magic/bleed damage
Paladin: SoR: extra armor. completely bypassed by magic/bleed damage
Warrior: Shield Block: 100% increase to block. completely bypassed by magic/bleed damage
DH: Demon Spikes: extra armor. completely bypassed by magic/bleed damage
Druid: Iron Fur: extra armor
Monk: Stagger: delays magic damage coming in, but still take 100% of the damage over time.
You were so close too! Guardians also get the benefit of being the only one to stack their active mitigation and increase its potency.
Monks with Stagger and Purify and DK’s with Death Strike and Blood Shield are about the only ones who actually have any true separate identity.
Absolutely you can. You’re just not going to, and then complain that the option doesn’t exist while it does. And the damage isn’t all that much lower seeing as you’re still getting Twin Moon / Raze / RoTS and ToI
BgGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgkEJJKOgSkEkQCJpQBgEBBJQSSSSSkC0SAAAAAAQEQChA
Yes it is. And painfully obviously so. You do keys right? Zero% chance you haven’t seen it.
You mean quite little. Idk man. Graph it out. In mx + b, the “b” isn’t usually the important part when it’s a straight number.
DK (the original active mitigation tank) and DH heal to mitigate damage.
Warriors have IP on top of block. Paladins literally block spells. Stagger is self explanatory.
It would be perfectly fine if they removed the cooldown on frenzy regen and call that our mitigation.
No, you cant. That build is garbage. You’ll take more damage and do less damage with it. It’s worse in every way.
Actually no, I haven’t seen a Paladin or Warrior tank run in on a higher Fort key and afk as the group wails on them letting their passive block be their only damage mitigation. Because that’s not how it works
But that’s not the case. It was already discussed in another thread concerning the upcoming tier set for guardian that the 15% increased health acts like an additional 12-13% DR and it doesn’t drop off very fast.
So the “b” in this scenario is pretty hefty.
No. I mean yes, but their active mitigation abilities (stopping damage as it comes in) are the ones I’ve listed. And they do not hamper magic/bleed damage at all.
That was never the question at hand. You claimed guardians had no self sustain. This build shows they have plenty. You’re just not going to take it because your damage is going to be lower
Citing your incorrect information from another thread isn’t the take you think it is.
Look, we just aren’t playing the same game. In a world wear your TTL is >10 seconds, and extra 20% HP is probably grand. But in a world where your ttl is 2-3s, getting that to 2.4 or 3.6 isn’t some magical bandaid.
And aren’t you the guy who’s been advocating for a Moonkin-sized ramp for tank with sunfires and rejuvs? No, thank you.
Let’s just skip to the end of every conversation we’ve ever had about Druids. If you don’t care about being competitive, play whatever you want. It literally doesn’t matter. If you do care about being competitive, Druids are not an option.
No. It’s just worse. Offensively, defensively. Emotionally. It has zero redeeming qualities. It doesn’t add sustain, it takes it away.
It’s not incorrect. You just don’t like it because it goes against your argument. Simple as that.
Nor are you playing the same game. Don’t be that guy. There are Bears out there doing keys 5-6 levels higher than yours. And by your math, that would mean that their TTL is pushing a fractions of a second.
The importance of the extra health is to stop one shot abilities. That’s where progression stops is when you’re unable to take a single hit.
here let me help you out:
Leaderboards say otherwise. But that’s fine. You live in your little bubble of denial.
Not sure you understand the word “sustain”, and that’s okay.