We’ll have to agree to disagree on this, if the choice has an impact on the character long term I feel that makes it a meaningful choice in regards to a mmo.
Which of the four covenants you choose is completely up to you. If someone allows others to coerce them into a choice that is also on them.
The thing is my suggestion doesn’t in any way shape or form take away RPG elements from you. You’d still be tied to the RP elements of switching from your Covenant while players who you stated go above and beyond are allowed to continue going above and beyond in the Content they enjoy.
So you couldn’t find a single thread or even post that predates shadowlands announcement asking for players to be restricted from playing multiple types of content to make the game a more perfect rpg than it has ever been.
You actually are forced to make a choice, the least worst choice of those that are given, or you will not have any content to play.
If you want to play any part of the game, you will have to decide which 3 of 4 gameplay, which 3 of 4 transmog, which 3 of 4 mount, and which 3 of 4 story to give up. And guess what? After you’ve chosen your gameplay, you may find that your choice now makes world content suck.
Except it doesn’t because the outcome was not changed, and the story progresses as it would have. You are just a person subject to the whims of fate (the devs). There are games that have true free will, this is not one of them.
So people that actually enjoy the game play should just “unsub?” Because they are the majority of players last I checked. The idea proposed here does its best to preserve as much of the RPG as possible without creating the scenario that Ion outlined in the interview. There is a real and distinct possibility that the RPG elements will be removed if compromise is not reached.
Please understand I’m trying to help preserve the RPG, absolutism is really not helping.
I don’t really get why I can only have one thing off the menu. It feels like one of those fake choices that bad RPGs force you to take so that your “choices have consequences” when there’s no real reason to do that.
But, whatever. It’s what they think is good storytelling.
As opposed to the RPG elements of the game being ripped out by there not being meaningful choice in the game.
On top of the fact that I can’t opt to have other people in, say, PvP have to make the same choice if they let people switch on a whim. It’s going to severely hurt me in something like PvP if everybody else can just switch to the optimal setup whenever they feel like it.
Either solution here is going to “punish” somebody.
It takes away meaningful choice, since choice that can be changed on a whim is not meaningful.
You also said early in the thread you didn’t put the requirement terribly high, meaning it’s going to be extremely common that players will have the ability to switch on a whim.
Exactly this.
I’m in the casual role-playing crowd - and I don’t want RP components of the game to interfere with the “try-hard” players because I can still get the benefit of RP and commitment from the game if there’s an option to switch.
Having a talent-style covenant ability system doesn’t prevent me from being able to RP and still make 1 meaningful choice for the whole expansion. This meaningful choice (for me) would be preserved while still allowing others to continue making meaningful (for them) choices that are substantial for how they enjoy the game and how they perform in various content.
No it changes it, it doesn’t remove it. Punishing choices in games aren’t meaningful either… because people just stop playing when forced to make decisions they don’t like or agree with.
I agree with you. I’d be 100% fine with this system as well. My concern primarily lies with a part of the playerbase getting screwed if the Covenants aren’t balanced properly. And knowing Blizzards past record when it comes to balancing leads me to believe that it’s gonna be rough at launch.
Terribly high like saying someone needs to be Cutting Edge or Gladiator to acquire it. My mentality was making it more geared towards a certain point in Mythic difficulty as well as semi high rating in Rated PvP.
Because when you get deeper in both of these aspects the minor changes can be what’s the difference of success and failure.
Where did I say that? I have not once said the choice has to be all or nothing. There will be mechanics in place so players can change, but making that change should be more involved then clicking a button in a ui.
I can understand in a single player RPG. But yeah I don’t think the consequence system is going to be liked at all when it goes live.
If you make the game sufficiently unenjoyable… that’s the result. As I’ve said before, players tend to shy away from permanent or otherwise punishing choices. Without compromise people will unsub out of frustration and anger at yet another ‘bad’ system like azerite. If we want to preserve the RP we need to compromise.
I have no faith in them being able to balance things - not for lack of trying, but just because there’s just so much diversity and number of combinations to account for. At least 3 content types, 12 classes, and 36 specs…
Making things more flexible frees them of the need to get things balanced tightly and allows for experimentation and creativity.
OR…
Take the current 4 abilities.
Make them a talent row.
Leave covenants as purely cosmetic choices.
QFT.
I’m fine with that as well. My suggestion only seeks to keep the RP elements in the game for players who legit enjoy stuff like that.
Exactly this. Especially when players can still play the game in an “RP” fashion by choosing 1 covenant for the expansion if they’d like.
I’d rather there be weekly bonuses from my chest or supplies for my professions that grow with prolonged commitment to a covenant rather than just restricting the ability to switch covenants.
I should be able to change my race and class at any rest area, because not being able to do so denies me choice.
I should be able to change my spells to any other classes spells at any rest area, because not being able to do so denies me choice.
I should be able to change my name at any rest area, because not being able to do so denies me choice.
To cut at the heart of the matter: You want everything. Stop denying or trying to dance around this point under the guise of “optional”. What you really want is the ability to swap covenants at any time for any particular piece of content you want to do, thereby removing any actual meaningful decision-making.
That’s exactly what I want. Because I’d partake in both Raiding and PvP during the expansion. If I’m making a push in both, why does my Covenant choice have to affect my progression?
It’s an mmorpg and throwaway progression systems should never be a choice like class/faction/race.
I don’t see how having players jump on a website to see what covenant/class combination is best for their preferred content is meaningful.
Punishing - yes, but not necessarily meaningful. And not something that couldn’t still be achieved in a system where players could swap things around.