Serious question here. We’re being told that RPG elements should lock player power behind meaningful decision making. That brings me to three questions:
1: Why did you remove PVP servers for warmode then? Choosing to play on a PVP server or a non-PVP server was a meaningful choice; warmode is an opt-in/opt-out system with no permanence; why was that meaningful choice removed?
2: Why does scaling exist then? PVP or PVE, getting more powerful should make many enemies trivial; that’s a fundamental RPG element too. Why is that gone?
3: Why are you pushing an RPG-mandatory element into a game that has always distinctly had RP and non-RP realms? Many of us chose RP realms to immerse ourselves in this, but as someone who most certainly loves to RP, I don’t see why you’d make covenant locking a thing on non-RP servers.
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Its a transparent excuse at best. The only thing “RPG” about WoW these days is its a 3rd person fantasy game. If I can sit in town all day and basically do whatever I want without having to leave, its not an RPG. WoW is just a fantasy version of Destiny at this point.
I’m going to do a bad job explaining this, but I think the point still stands.
All this BS push they doing for “RP” and “Meaningful choice” is just a marketing gimmick to cover up really unfun systems intended only to extend player time. That’s all it is, and it ever has been. In 9.2, they’ll put out a system they have ready right now to fix the issues we’ve been bringing up since before Alpha to try and look like the good guys and that they are “listening to feedback,” while introducing new unfun and busted mechanics.
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Covenants have nothing to do with RP. It is about getting players to repeat content on multiple toons because that increases game play time and player engagement with the new system.
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The RPG elements is just a line to sell covenants.
Though I do wish they were more serious about it.
The lore in Destiny is a lot better than the lore in WoW at this stage 
So we can play with friends.
Lol. My gear can kill mobs that used to be difficult. I can kill 10,000 Sethraks at once if I want.
It’s the entire storyline of SL. We choose a covenant, earn their trust, and they give us their power. To think you can say “J/k” and swap before ever fight in the raid doesn’t fit with the story. You call it RP. You can swap, but their powers aren’t free.
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You have yet to play the beta as you would know this is wrong as even after choosing a covenant at max lvl you still go to maldraxus and becone best friends with them and do a long quest line getting the power they give because its mandatory content quest lines. So I can have venthyr and maldraxus at the same time in this instance but any other time no?
I mean, dude was arguing in bad faith by ignoring the corollary so I ignored him, but I agree with you. The story is very disjointed to be honest; are we strong allies of one covenant or all four?
I don’t think that this is either accurate nor the most charitable interpretation of what we’ve been told.
Further, the questions that you pose miss the mark—the first two misunderstand how the game was changed in response to player preferences and the last one misunderstands what RPG means in this context.
Lets be real the entire premise is not an rpg thing its am attempt at blizz to muddy the water so much its hard to find a meta. The idea being well no meta exists so don’t sim and play with everyone even though we are just going to have to sim more and exclude more people now
This has become a popular conspiracy over the last few days (maybe a YouTuber posted it?), but it doesn’t make any sense. Covenants do not, in any way, deny the existence of a meta.
“I want a core RPG game to not be an RPG” kek. Good luck selling blizzard that one.
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This thread just helped me to realize that a reason to not allow people to switch covenants is with the added perks for having a covenant in your group for dungeons so you just don’t swap them out on a per dungeon basis. Anyway, carry on arguing about how opting in/out of pvp is the same as covenants. I’d say it’s not but people don’t listen to me 
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Unbalanced servers - pvp servers most of them were pve servers with name tag pvp.
Some servers used to have a healthy population for pvp but eventually over time either they got unbalanced or lost population . The player at that point is no longer playing in the server they were signed up for .
It could be either to lengthen the play time , it could be to make grouping up with low level a less hassle or both
Wow is RPG lite , RPG servers are generally for players who treat the game as second life game irrelevant on wow’s storyline . The general gameplay/ story line is still an Rpg game.
I think I understand where they are coming from. But this is just my opinion on the matter.
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Even though I agree that this was a meaningful choice, and I don’t remember a specific reason why they got rid of PvP realms, they did this before classic launched and learned that too little friction and choices were not that fun.
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Getting more powerful and making many enemies trivial is not a core RPG element. At best it an arcaich one. I’m assuming we haven’t seen a lot of it in the past because of a software/hardware limitations of the past. I remember they said people running around one shotting mobs before a lower geared player could tag them wasn’t fun for the lower geared player.
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I’ve never RPed in WoW but even I enjoy having a strong interaction with the world. Maybe having a journey that is a little different than others. Just like when I play Witcher, Final Fantasy, Ghosts of Tsushima.
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I don’t think Blizzard quite understands RPG, or at least the RP part of it. I remember in WoD when Garrisons turned out the way they did because “they had to be meaningful” when it could have been just a cool base or mini hub. Now I’m sure everyone looks at the term RPG differently, but given past experiences I don’t have a lot of faith in the ones interpreting it. Professions could be opened up and explored for more gameplay content and Transmog could include dyes and hues (and for anyone that says it won’t work because of matching its not gonna stop some of the clown outfits you still see today). How the player feels in the world I think is also important, rather than how cluttered it feels.
Also I’d take their reasoning with a grain of salt, it tends to be “make the chance and figure out an explanation to give later”. I remember the ML change was originally stated to be to slow down top guilds, then when people went on about being treated unfairly they changed their tune. I guess they felt the second reason would be an easier sell to people.
we go through each zone and assist each covenant during the Shadowlands lvling process correct? why then do they say f you after you helped them and limit your access to their abilities?
Really because covenant choices add another 9848 different build paths when you take into account they also affect soulbinds and conduits and thats just with the ones so far. No YouTuber had said this that in aware of but its big discussion point on the class beta discord
BlizZard doesn’t believe in RPG.
Scaling alone undermines that because we don’t know the “rules”. If you don’t know the rules how is this a legit RPG?
