Is there something wrong with staying in a starting zone forever?
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Thank you!
I mean, half the fun of any rpg is finding out how to beat it with your character equipped with nothing more than a sturdy pair of undies and perhaps a stick.
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People wants to play with their friend, and they can’t do that when their friend is on another faction, seems pretty reasonable for me.
When I think RPG, I think… Skyrim, not FF6.
RPG is an incredibly broad term, to the point that it makes using it without further qualifiers pointless in a discussion.
So, I guess “open world RPG” or “action RPG” or a combination of the two would probably be the closest thing to what people mean when you’re in a discussion about min/maxing vs “RPG elements”.
You can play as whatever kind of build you want and still be successful in Diablo.
You can RP as one of the Forsworn in Skyrim and still be successful.
You can roll through Dark Souls naked and still be successful.
Which is entirely different than turn based games that are often specifically about countering what the enemy has.
Yeah because simulation exist, but nobody ever mention the fact that they will never be able to play the exact same as the sim and the result will always be different.
Take the alchemist trinket for example, it’s a great trinket for rogues but in all the guides it was always rated as a below average trinket because sim says that it’s doesn’t increase your DPS.
Can you though…? Getting that dual blade by skipping to the the 12th boss (Dancer) makes the previous bosses much much easier to kill.
I have to quickly say, I was thinking this myself when posting earlier… though there are certainly a few caveats.
- Speedrunning is technically one of the most extreme versions of min/maxing, with the main objective being clearing a game from start to finish as quickly as possible.
- Multiple and varying rule-sets are often applied. Low % clears are an obvious example, and “Any %” generally meaning by any means necessary. As the methods improve, it actually creates new rule-sets out of the previous techniques.
- Probably the one difference between most speedrunners and the WoW community is that they know they’re a niche group and don’t try to apply their standards to your typical player. They acknowledge that the game doesn’t HAVE to the optimized; let people play for fun, and let them pursue more advanced challenges only if they want to instead of steering players into them.
- RPGs are generally not popular for speedrunning for a variety of reasons (too long to do in a single sitting, too much reliance on RNG drops, etc.)… but nevertheless, they’ve been done. On the other hand, “Low %” runs of RPGs are quite common; “No Sphere Grid” in Final Fantasy X is an easy example to think of:
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They are seriously impinging on it by demanding the game conform to their type of play over the role-playing aspect and insisting everyone min/max instead of respecting role-playing choices.
Not me.
I am creating fully-developed characters, not just vehicles for me to speed thru end game content, so that weapon fitting in with my character build is the priority.
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Ragnarok Online. Super Novice.
It’s the best class. Kicks the 
out of min-maxers.
Is it like Onion Knight from FF3?
Not sure. I didn’t play much FF3.
https://irowiki.org/wiki/Super_NoviceBefore transmogging in this game, I’ve definitely equipped gear based on appearance over stats. Even when I ran dungeons in Wrath, as long as I was out dpsing the healer… (Okay it was more in the realm of being in the same dps ballpark as the others)
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I promise I’ll read the rest of the replies after work.
Even in pen&paper RPGs like GURPS, there was an element of min-maxing… it’s just that we had to come up with a good reason for the choices.
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I think what is being confused is RPG vs. RP.
RPG - role playing games are a huge genre that spans from pen and paper D&D to online video games such as MMO-RPGs.
RP - role playing is taking on the character’s persona and backstory, then basing decisions and actions on that.
Min/Maxing certainly is not new to RPGs, even pen & paper ones like D&D.
However Min/Maxing is not an RP element.
Min maxing is an RP element
You might not know it but the amount of min maxing happens in day to day life
Don’t believe me, I bet everyone takes the fastest route to work and not the prettiest
Got a big after noon of wow planned? Get rid of everyone in the house and make yourself a coffee to max that out
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Literally every hobby I am involved in IRL involves me min/maxing to achieve my goals in it.
I’ve seen people here who cry the “RPG” in the game is gone and sip their coffee while min maxing and laugh at RPers on RP servers calling them silly.
You decide who the silly one is.
I mean really min/maxing isn’t just an rp element. People are too hung up. It’s literally just hyper specialization at one ability/task at the determent of one or more other abilities/tasks. Literally “Minimum/Maximum”.
That’s it. There’s no bigger meaning. It’s just the exact opposite of being a jack of all trades.
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I see it more as hyper specialization at one thing at the expense of the more casual elements of that thing.
Subjectively, I think these more casual elements are typically the more fun elements. But once in a while that fun has to be put aside to accomplish a goal. I see that cost as “min/max”.
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I can agree with that. I think I was trying to go for the most clinical definition. But you’re not wrong.
And there’s nothing wrong with your opinion. You like what you like. I typically see it the same way. I was just more commenting on the idea that min/maxing isn’t really an rpg thing, or at least not totally an rpg thing.
The whole discussion is kind of flawed (besides things like what you said) because even the definitions about what’s being discussed are super subjective.
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Why wouldn’t you want to be the best you can be in a RPG? Archers don’t just keep their starter bow because “Ole Gummy” said it was my new right arm!! “Ole Gummy” would kick your butt for turning down that Elven +5 Bow of Archerness!!