It’s ‘die’, by the way. One die, two dice.
But splitting the buffs into 3 major ones and 3 minor ones, and always granting one of each (but RNG which one), is precisely what I and several others have suggested. It brings down the RNG godmode issues, and it gets rid of the “RNGesus hates me, so I guess I’mma get a grey parse today” lowpoints.
So far we’ve got about 3 ideas floating in this thread that are all better than what we are getting so… frack us, right? lol
I for one hated that insight mechanic more than I hate RtB and I was beyond obnoxious in WoD when half your damage was back loaded
I was glad to see that go and I’m still not happy with how RTB works is tho
This basically describes me right now. Insight felt bad, BfA RtB feels bad, and I’m only slightly less annoyed by SL RtB. At least I won’t have to spam reroll because the game just really thinks I want True Bearing, but there’s still that huge RNG swing from 5-buff, the massive difference in value of the individual buffs, and Restless Blades meaning fishing is still a thing.
Is it die? I was feeling proud of myself for at least calling them the proper name haha
I just really dont understand why they insist on trying to force us into a broken mechanic instead of addressing the issue people have with the mechanic.
We both have similar goals us being devs and players. A relatively predictable rng that gives us class fantasy and predictability and rng that is balanced and fun
ok, so make adrenaline rush grant 2 random buffs of RtB on top of that, if burst window / keeping up with lust on pull is your concern.
Your ideas would certainly lower the amount of RNG in RtB, but imo, it still very likely would remain one of the least fun abilities in the game. Combat, erm, outlaw, already has enough rng baked in with main gauche, which is a whole other can of crappy worms. Stupid pirate theme aside, I think the spec would be better off without RtB entirely.
edit: grammar fix
Eh, if the buffs were better balanced against each other, I don’t think it is much of an issue. RtB livens up the rotation by regularly changing how our abilities work. Sometimes we generate extra CPs, sometimes Restless Blades is stronger, sometimes we attack faster and thus get more energy from offhand attack procs, sometimes we get more Opportunity procs. It keeps things dynamic. The issue for me is the huge RNG swing possible, and both the possibility and desirability of rerolling bad buffs. That’s a failure of design, in my opinion.
I’d say ‘Amen’ if I were a priest.
RTB needs to learn from the old Obi Wan Kenobi quote baseline before it can be fun/welcome, “In my experience, there’s no such thing as luck.”
Let’s get real though: I expect borrowed power to fix this one. Just like every other class design gap heading into Shadowlands.
Welcome back man, funny how everyone comes out of the woodwork when there is hope for improvement.
That right there is a good portion of why I don’t like RtB. Some buffs are good under one set of conditions, other buffs are good under a different set of conditions. Even if the buffs were balanced fairly evenly, I still think the rng would make the spec spike-y in damage because of how the buffs affect our abilities and stats. I say leave the rng out. There’s already enough of it.
But then Outlaw is pure rote. It’s literally just rotating between Slice and Dice, Between the Eyes, and Dispatch. There’s no variation, and the only really relevant RNG is when we get Opportunity procs. Frankly, that would be boring.
Like, I hate seeing such a huge swing in Outlaw’s output. The guaranteed-2-buff VoP/Loaded Dice build is the only thing that salvages the spec for me in BfA, to be honest. But the answer to that isn’t removing RtB entirely. We do that, and the only thing we have left to keep track of is a single 30s buff and a single 45s CD (reduced my Restless Blades).
RTB would work fine if Loaded Dice was baseline.
Put up SND, and hit RTB CD + AR for a guaranteed two buffs when you need it.
That is some level of planning by putting up SND, and holding onto RTB + AR when you need it.
Right now because of how RTB is designed you just fish for rolls or spam damage finishers.
To me it feels off because Sub Rogue is the spec that specializes on finishers. Plus, why does Sub Rogue have CD reduction mechanic similar to Outlaw?
Blizz needs to go back to the drawing board for all three Rogue specs and choose where they should overlap for class fantasy and where they should shine as specs.
Honestly, I’d take that over an RNG-dependent spec, which Outlaw will remain heavy on as long as it has both RtB and Main Gauche.
Outlaw’s lack of finishers is a big reason why Blizz justifies the existence of RTB. But to be honest RTB is now a CD and not a finisher so…yeah?
So basically Blizz has traded Kspree for RTB as a CD. A lot of players didn’t like the unreliability of Kspree but RTB can be unreliable as well.
Should have kept RTB as a talent as it was originally presented IMO. This is because in theory talents should be stronger than baseline abilities. If SND was baseline then RTB should have been stronger and RTB would have kept its potency as a strong talent.
However when RTB was made baseline it had to be weakened for balance reasons. Ironically enough SND was made a talent which also was weakened.
And in the process to balance energy capping they also weakened AR.
Overall Blizz needs to listen to alpha/beta feedback because Rogue specs need some love.
Main Gauche doesn’t really add much RNG. Like, it’s mostly just extra damage, and not even a terribly significant source of it, either. Ya, the strikes can trigger Combat Potency, but it’s at a lower proc rate than regular white swing offhands strikes anyway. Most of our Combat Potency procs just come from natural offhand swings (by a fair margin, actually). Main Gauche damage itself is around 5-6% of our total damage, at most.
Grabbed a random Outlaw log from the top 20 on Shad. They had 74 Main Gauche procs over the fight, which was 4.5% of their total damage. Those 74 Main Gauche procs granted 32 of their 148 Combat Potency procs, or 21.6%. So ya, not exactly a significant source of RNG there.
They nerfed AR in 7.2.5, but they also buffed Combat Potency from a 30% chance (with a 2.6s weapon) to 75% in BfA prepatch. And since AR buffs our attack speed as well, it also got buffed by Combat Potency. AR also buffs our max energy, which helps with overcapping. It kinda offsets.
Crossing my fingers. But the removal of stun from Between the Eyes is very un-flavorful. Wish I was on the alpha to have these discussions.
Eh, we’re getting Kidney Shot baseline instead. There are times I wished BtE didn’t have a stun, since it can prematurely DR a target that needs stunned for something important. Having a stun as part of your single-target rotation is problematic from a lot of perspectives.
Also, the new version of Between the Eyes, with the crit buff, should be super fun, especially if we get True Bearing. As it stands right now, with True Bearing, every other finisher is BtE. In SL, BtE is a 45s CD instead of 30s, so call it every 3rd. It should still be very easily doable to cast Between the Eyes again while benefiting from its own crit and crit damage bonuses. Possibly even without True Bearing.
Man I still remember that nasty PVP video you made back in Mists, I loved that. I never forget the good stuff man. Maybe that was cata, I cant remember its been a hot minute.
Just so we get the new guys in on what rogue PVP was before WoD, this is the only thing I can think of that can describe it without actually linking some top tier Rank 1 PVP that they wouldnt actually be able to comprehend with out massive backstory.
That’s what Dispatch is for.
I mostly PvP. Crits are significantly reduced in PvP. Outlaw is the only way I am able to counter Demon Hunters when I don’t have a healer up my butt. The only way I am able to counter a class that has a 100% chance to dodge for 30% of its rotation is the unavoidable stun from BtE. Watching DHs slam their trinket because - oh god, they can’t do their buttons for once - brings me great joy. DH is on the level of Season 5 and 6 DKs.
MoP, WoD, and a garbage one for Legion that got muted for copyrighted music from 40 years ago.
I do have an idea for a short BFA video. It requires a lot of rogues with Rainbow Generator and rank 3 or better focusing iris.