Limit the number of buffs you can get at a time to 1.
Buff the buffs to be on par with shark buff.
Make it so we don’t feel like we get fracked by bad luck in Shadowlands, especially since we won’t be able to reroll often.
8 Likes
I hate roll the Bones. I wouldn’t miss it , if they scrapped it.
The game has enough Rng and the name sucks.
Blizzard digs in and is committed to that stupid ability.
8 Likes
lol I honestly find it funny that Blizzard keeps trying to hard-limit the ability to reroll, from the start of Legion until now, but they never stop to wonder why people are always having to reroll. Could it be that some buffs are just useless in all circumstances, and no matter how hard they gate rerolls, the ability will always feel like garbage to use? Hmmm.
6 Likes
Someone designed that ability and they refuse to let it die. Any iteration of combat rogue without Roll the bones was better than this garbage
6 Likes
I would much rather the buffs be limited to a random 2 than 1. The buffs themselves aren’t as strong as they are in Live, only ever having 1 buff might not feel too good.
1 Like
RtB: the reason I switched mains after 14 years of combat rogue-ing.
It’s a horrible skill and should be completely dumped.
6 Likes
That’s why I said buff them.
Outlaw is being balanced around the potential of having 2 and 5 rolls, meaning that one rolls are worthless except 1 shark.
You could consolidate buff pairs and call them a single dice or improve the ones we have.
IE: You could merge Grand Melee and Buried treasure into one.
IE: You could buff true bearing to have armor pen.
2 Likes
Blizzard rarely admits a mistake. When it’s pointed out. They usually double down on that mistake. This is a good example of that. RtB will actually be worse now. I dont like RtB but Rerolling does have its benefits it certain situations. Now yer just stuck with whatever garbage you get.
1 Like
I think that the core idea behind roll the bones, which is that different buffs switch up your rotation, is fine, but they haven’t been able to balance buffs at all, so the correct strat has been fishing from the start.
If they are getting rid of fishing, they have to make it easier on themselves to balance the buffs, probably by reducing the number of buffs / buff combinations dramatically.
2 Likes
Yeah, i get that and agree. but here is their new description:
Roll the Bones No longer has a Combo Point requirement. It now has a modifiable cooldown that can be manipulated to line up with finishing moves.
“Modifiable”: are they simply referring to Restless Blades? big deal.
and what do they mean by “Manipulated”?
Maybe they will tweak its mechanics a bit. Right now, a 50 energy CD for a ‘maybe good’, ‘maybe garbage’ isnt exactly a fun ability.
You should look forward to hitting a cooldown because its fun. not worry that it’ll suck.
1 Like
Why not have Roll the Bones be more similar to Bandit’s Guile from MoP?
You gain more buffs as you spend more combo points, and it eventually resets back to 1. The buffs are random but you have chances to proc an extra one when using full-point finishers.
No buttons needed. It. Just. Works.
1 Like
A fun twist would be 1 dice baseline and then +1 dice per combo point spent on the roll. Chance to get more buffs at a risk of wasting CP.
The main issue is that they balance around multiple buffs. They need to balance around 1 buff and let the occasional extra buffs make you feel OP. This is how it was in early Legion. You did good damage baseline but felt like a god when the stars aligned on that 2% chance to 6 buff.
They can’t do that though.
5 rolls already ruined multiple MDI’s and they don’t want to deal with that anymore. That’s part of the reason they are nerfing fishing.
You’re absolutely right unfortunately. This is a prime example of sacrificing fun for the sake of competitive balance. It is what it is though.
1 Like
Here’s a novel idea:
Get rid of RtB.
Make SND base again.
Change the flavor of Pistol Shot and Between The Eyes to have them be knife or sword-type attacks.
Get rid of the pirate crap theme and make it a ninja theme.
Rename the spec “Combat.”
4 Likes
They need to come up with something entirely different, RTB is just bad design, I was never a big fan of Green, yellow and Red insight but it was 10X better than RTB. Truly combat was at the peak of its perfection in TBC and Wrath, after that its gone down hill hard.
1 Like
Didn’t read that part, although the Shark buff is nowhere near the best buff as Broadsides is still much better. Shark will lose value even more with the crit chance buff from BTE.
Though if they buff all the others to the same value as Broadsides that may pose a balancing issue considering how good it is.
So, recently discovered the VoP/Loaded Dice/Brigand’s Blitz build for Outlaw, and holy hell is it fun. You’re effectively guaranteed 2 buffs on every RtB, because between VoP and Restless Blades, you’ll cast or proc AR within the duration every time.
It really highlights what the major issue with RtB is: too many of the buffs individually suck, there’s too much RNG swing possible, and there’s too much reason to reroll buffs. Even the cooldown version in SL, since it’s on Restless Blades, has these issues. There will still be buffs that we’ll want to reroll as soon as RtB comes back off CD, and others we want to retain for the full duration. Unlike BfA, if we get a bad buffs, though, we’re just flat stuck with it for at least ~15s or so. In fact, one of the ironies of the SL implementation is that True Bearing will be one of the better buffs, not because it is good, but because it enables us to recycle it for a better buff much faster.
My wishlist for RtB in SL:
- RtB now has a 30s duration and a 30s cooldown, not affected by Restless Blades. This gives it 100% uptime, but without any possibility of fishing.
- RtB now always grants exactly 2 buffs. Whether that is random, or as another person a couple weeks back suggested, dividing the buffs into “major” and “minor” and always granting one of each, I don’t care.
- Buff or rework the underperforming traits, so that every pairing of traits that RtB can grant is relatively close in usefulness. True Bearing and Buried Treasure obviously need some love. Skull and Crossbones is up in the air, it may suck less without Wits in the mix. Broadside is good with a Deadshot build and in AoE, which says to me it can’t be too far off the mark.
The key is here removing the possibility as well as the desire to reroll, and squashing the huge RNG swing that can occur.
2 buffs is really fun to play with (try out the VoP/Loaded Dice build, even if only on a target dummy. Honestly, it’s a blast), is a lot more impactful on our rotation than 1 buff, and also generates more possible combinations of buffs, so our gameplay is more varied overall. If it’s just a free-for-all any 2 buffs, there are 15 total combinations possible. If the buffs are instead grouped into 3 “major” (say, Ruthless Precision, Grand Melee, and Broadside) and 3 “minor” (the other 3), then there are 9 possible combinations. In either case, there we get more rotational variance than just capping it at 1 buff.
Removing 5-buff also removes the complete RNG swing in our DPS. Having RNG boons is nice, but having RNG boons be that strong just feels bad, since the vast majority of the time you won’t get it.
Honestly, that would solve the issues I have with the SL version of RtB. It would remain as a regular RNG mix-up of our rotation, but with more predicable magnitude of effect, no more fishing for better buffs, and in general would just be more fun to play with (well, imo).
2 Likes
I personally feel it should just be a static cooldown, rather than something that’s a constant maintenance buff, which is part of the reason I’ve hardly touch Outlaw ever since the revamp from Combat, pretty much having a lack of control for such a costly ability is just mind numbing.
Now if it was a static cooldown like Colossus Smash for arms warriors, where it’s on a mild cooldown and you get 1-2 of the random buffs, sometimes all of them, and shifted some numbers around Outlaws overall damage, I would think it would be a much better trade off them having to spend the points to reroll over and over again.
2 Likes
I love the ability for class fantasy. A gamble with a di (or how about 2?) For a pirate? Love it. It’s why i play the toon. The only thing keeping it from being my main is the fact you can get a 1 roll with something garbo.
Make 1 di have the garbo ones and 1 di have the good ones. You’ll never get lucky and be OP but you’ll never get unlucky and be gimped.
It’s a perfect solution that keeps the fantasy and keeps the ego of the dev that thought it up intact.
Why is it so hard to do? Then you have an easier time balancing the class bc the variance isnt going to be there. For added rng make them have a range and have a third di that roles to see where in the range you fall.
Tell me a pirate wouldnt have done that with his winnings from the prize
1 Like