We all know where the ERPers will go lol.
#Pornshire
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I do hope RP-PvP is considered. RP-PvP is how I initially started playing, and I had some great experiences.
I’ll have to see how the servers roll out, but an RP server with a Vanilla flavor sounds fun.
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I know people even on retail who RP through content and do it regularly and people who do it on the private server scene, too! Having done it a lot myself since I started it’s a lot of fun. Never going back to d20 RP events again.
Can we not? The whole thing started because the the server crashes when vanilla was the retail game and it was to mock the people actually role-playing.
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You bet I’m heading to an RP-PvE server. I’m a little concerned about the dev’s “lean realms” mantra. I’m glad they’re considering RP-PvE at all and I feel for those that wanted an RP-PvP server and were told they were too niche.
If they’re planning on only 1 server per realm type and region, then hoooooooooboy, them queues are gonna suck. Either they’re going to shard the ever living hell out of them or they’re going to rush to open up more servers.
I’ll probably pick a server and play both Alliance and Horde, likely 1-2 on each faction. I seen at least one RP guild recruiting for Classic, which is nice. Whenever I brought up Classic RP on Wyrmrest Accord it was almost universally dismissive. Mostly siting that the game world would be static, but for me, that’s the appeal. No constant retcons to the story, that way. Plus, Classic goes back to simpler times right off the heels of Warcraft 3, lorewise.
The Battle of Mount Hyjal would basically feel like yesterday for our characters, and that’s exciting for me.
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Yeah but people can’t play invincible god-killing heroes that are the center of everything and who’s delusions are backed by the horrible gameplay design of Retail WoW. The game itself doesn’t support that. Really people can do what they want and it’s not my place to police RP but for my part I like playing characters more firmly grounded in the lore in a time when the mechanics really reflected the world.
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At best, people I’d speak to either in a guild or in public chats would say they might do an alternate time line of their character for a short while, but I never saw any actual glowing support for starting up a new character or guild or re-imagining old ones.
Then again, a lot of people I spoke to wouldn’t consider it on account of the reduced race roster. When I asked on Horde I was immediately shot down because of no Blood Elves. That’s a respectable reason, but I should have realized who I was asking haha.
Mechanically speaking, people won’t have access to dozens of toys that they’d otherwise use for RP. So character concepts would overall feel more limited to the reduced race roster and far, far fewer selection of pets, mounts, etc. that are per-character and take up space in your bag.
Plus, you have to go back to the old days of packing your RP gear in your bags.
I welcome all these challenges*, but something tells me that Cassic RP will be a niche of a niche. I just hope there’s at least a couple great guilds that can sustain themselves on these servers.
*Edit: I’m not saying that the collection tab, transmog, or increased race selection is inherently BAD, but I’m willing to forsake all of that to RP in an actual RPG again. When the lore was simple and great.
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Maybe I’m being harsh. Different strokes, different folks. I’ll admit I’m a bit bitter. Some people like to be in control and have everything play out a certain way. Others are more open to influence and wild card events. It’s just a different playstyle; it’s not anymore different than preferring PvE to PvP. Hell some people just like to fish and do professions. It’s a perfectly valid way to enjoy the game.
I understand people who don’t have the energy to make new characters. I played roughly the same character from BC to Wrath. Then afterwords I really did only play the one, eventually adding another and then one who never went anywhere because there wasn’t a lot of interest in that specific niche at the time. RPing these characters is like wearing a really comfy T-shirt for a decade. You’ve got so many good memories with it and it’s almost become part of how people know you.
The way I play these days is pretty much embracing the game’s setting. That’s kinda not as fun or challenging on retail where RPG mechanics are slim to none. But in Classic I find it so rewarding starting with a minimalist backstory and building my character from the ground-up based on experience, what my character learns about his corner of the world, the people he meets, etc…
The world is just better and more alive. Even at high levels the wilds are still very dangerous to you and there’s incentive to get out there. To me at least it’s very rewarding and fun compared to RP now on retail.
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I agree 100%.
It helps that back in Vanilla, there’s a much smaller gap between gameplay and narrative. Your RP character can fit much more comfortably in the scope of Vanilla vs the scope of Legion or BfA. I feel like the more distant you have to be from the game’s narrative to make RP make sense, the less that game caters to that playstyle.
I can totally dig that any RP character I run into did all the quests they say they did, because all the quests seem like “busy work” but ultimately help out the small villages and garrisons in ways that grander heroes might not appreciate. I can’t really buy an RP profile stating that they lead the Paladin order hall and personally slain Kil’jaedan even if they did that with their actual character.
Hence why I’m excited to get back to basics. Hell even accomplished veteran and war hero characters saying “I’ve been to Naxxramas”, well, whole armies of people stormed Naxxramas and it’s easier to buy you were just one of a large crowd storming the floating necropolis. As opposed to, again, personally killing the second in command of the Burning Legion and wielding Ashbringer.
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It all sounds like a splendid sentiment, but this is probably one of the more narrowed views on roleplaying.
The sort of roleplaying community who focuses on in-game elements to drive their roleplaying is less narrative driven, which more social roleplayers engage in. The in-game mechanics don’t work for them, so many roleplayers come up with their own systems for randomization and skill-based roll-play.
Incorporating the solo elements of the game world to create their own stories using the backgrounds of the game as presented, is a sentiment often ascribed to players who prefer the small-scale roleplay of small groups or guilds, and don’t intend to share much of a narrative with the rest of their realm.
Consider that many roleplayers don’t duel to determine who wins an IC fight, they write and roleplay out the fights - sometimes without rolling or using anything other than their creativity and cooperation.
The question is how big and how involved the Classic RP community wants to get.
For a current comparison, WrA has historically favored “guild alliances” where a guild or three share storylines. Moon Guard has a lot of “server lore” where many guilds interact through their own stories under a number of server wide events and stories as a backdrop. Other realms have roleplay limited to small groups or within guilds, etc.
That said, the roleplaying community resists a lot of what the game tells them they are. While you can roleplay strictly as your character, you might find that the social roleplayers won’t be bound by the game’s mechanics, or even it’s lore.
For instance, everyone here talks endlessly about everyone having Ashbringer, but you’ll be hard pressed to find someone in most of these current roleplaying communities who seriously roleplays that he has or has ever had the Ashbringer.
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I was on Ravenholdt, Moon Guard, and WrA in several major guilds for years and years. I’m not an outsider looking in and if these guys want to RP like that more power to them. But there’s a couple things I gotta contest. The idea this version of RP is somehow more “narrow” isn’t really correct. I’ve done it; the possibilities are immense.
You can still have narratives and set goals within this framework. You can have personal goals for your character. Plus it forces you to think on your feet and really get into the character.
Just to get into the technical aspects of text-based fights only, how often have you seen these actually end amicably if there wasn’t a pre-determined outcome? Plus the simplest fights end up taking hours of your life and the truth is you’re just standing around when you could be having a real fight.
Ultimately it will come down to what the players want and again I’m not gonna call people “bad” for choosing to play the game a different way, just to consider maybe we don’t have to do things this way and there’s another way. Do we really want to keep having in-game rules for conduct masquerading as “server lore” that really are just bats for people who’ve accrued favor in these circles to beat people they don’t like for whatever reason? Do we really want more RP fights and “battles” over completely imaginary goals when we could be doing real things with the game we’re given? I’m trying to articulate as best I can that I’m not telling people how to RP, merely to consider a different way with some amazing tools at our disposal.
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For me one of the main things I’m looking forward to for Classic RP is not having this overpowered nonsensical “legendary hero” lore. I get why they had to push the story in that direction but it makes it lame for RP because you need to ignore all that stuff. Classic, given how close to WC3 it is, lets you add some elements of what has been going on to your background without it becoming overpowering, especially since most of us are supposed to be relatively young (the Orc intro from Vanilla even states that you are basically just coming of age).
So for example in my character’s background, his father is one of the orcs with Grom Hellscream during the WC3 campaign and after all the stuff that went down with that (Night Elf attacks, drinking demon blood again, etc.) he gave up a life of fighting and became a blacksmith in Orgrimmar where his skills could be used to train the next generation of Orcs. My character is apprenticed to him but expressed interest in seeing the world and being able to serve the Horde as more than just a smith.
I don’t have to have anything more than that with background, honestly. I can mold my character through RP to see what direction he goes. I don’t have to handwave away the stuff that I do in game as being game only, and that’s really cool because it gives you way more to work with for RP development purposes.
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In practicality, is very narrow. The biggest issue is that, even before you begin any sort of interaction where there is a contest, be it randomized or with mechanical aspects, there are many problems - beginning with what way you’re going to be deciding the outcome.
Using the in-game system has several issues. Levels, classes. While the “Gamist” may rely or even embrace the mechanics, it isn’t the RPG experience that, quite frankly, the majority of roleplayers favor. And this is why someone like Ion says that RP-PvP is too niche. He’s wrong that it shouldn’t be a server type, but there just isn’t as many who would want to rely on the game mechanics as there are who don’t.
Using your guild’s homebrewed system has issues. D20 or percentile systems are too random. Someone else has too many bonuses. Someone who doesn’t have a character sheet gets no bonuses to rolls, etc. etc. No one has a universal system that can be adopted by everone.
In the broadest aspect, the text-based fights are often the most even, as there is no random chance of losing based on some arbitrary system. The worst case scenario is accusing the other player of god-moding, but in most cases that I’ve seen, the fights end with a conclusion that allows for further character development and proceeding a narrative without damaging the player’s input.
That’s the standard argument from people who are more interested in the gameplay than how a community might work together, in-character.
In Vanilla, this is exactly what PvPers would say mocking roleplayers. “These people stand around typing rather than having real fights.” And you can have that, Ion is wrong in saying that RP-PvP is too niche, but this is what interests these roleplayers, not basing their stories on the mechanics.
And yes, standing around is what some people want to do. For the “para” or paragraph roleplayer, they are stretching their writing talents as much as they can, and they can’t do that in the middle of a pvp duel.
There’s a big difference between an in-game PvP duel, a diced text duel, and a completely IC roleplayed duel. Differences ‘in the moment’ of drama. All are valid, but one using in-game mechanics allows for the least amount of reaction in terms of character in that moment, on a practical standpoint, until afterwards.
None of this is new. This sort of thing has existed before WoW, is in current WoW, and is in all manner of roleplay across the internet and offline.
Look around any RP server from back then, or now. People will roleplay what they want, and how.
The Classic RP community isn’t going to be limited to ‘just’ WoW, because we have retail WoW. We even have the defunct tabletop version of WoW that adds all manner of lore that isn’t in Classic.
Goldshire existed in Vanilla. Certainly, Argent Dawn-US was the home of Vanilla Goldshire with “Goldshire Guilds” that did exactly what “Goldshire” does now. It may or may not exist on your Classic realm. They want to RP their way, fine.
There’s absolutely going to be people who disagree with things like “server lore” and roleplay what they want. I used Moon Guard as an example, but it’s also the example I use when people say that roleplayers will roleplay how they want, regardless.
If I threw a rock on Moon Guard, I’d be able to hit serious roleplayers, cat clanners, Goldshire ERPers, and the single-session Family/College/Kingdom Rpers all at once. Not to mention the people who don’t RP at all.
Same story with WrA or Emerald Dream. ED is your RP-PVP realm, and people certainly let the game dictate how they roleplay, but again, it’s not as popular as MG or WrA for their roleplay, which is why Ion says RP-PVP is “too niche”.
Roleplayers will decide what they want, Classic or Retail. Their community will decide for themselves. There isn’t anything that can stop them from using both the in-game mechanics and some homebrewed system, or even just emoting at each other.
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This may actually be a point of contention for the roleplay community, but there was an expanded universe for WoW outside of the game itself during Vanilla, that may crop up in the Classic RP community.
From 2003 to 2008, there existed the Warcraft RPG (and later the World of Warcraft RPG), from which the devs detailed a lot of the game world’s lore that later was adapted for WoW, but the RPG books themselves were declared non-canon at Cataclysm’s release, in favor of the lore presented with the Retail expansions.
So, given that Classic takes place in “the past”, the Roleplay community may become divided based on that alone. This is my expectation: that Classic RP may be colored by Retail lore, but some may go with the tabletop RPG lore as presented, with some trying to go with only what is presented in Classic itself.
Myself? I kind of want to blend them - use the tabletop RPG lore unless the Retail lore retcons it. For example, that Blood Elf area north of EPL isn’t the Ghostlands, it’s the Blackened Woods (but later becomes known as the Ghostlands).
That said… I may choose to ignore the presence of Med’an entirely.
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Manzo, please stop RPing that you are the all-knowing ambassador/spokesperson of the roleplaying community. It is insufferable and tiring.
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If you disagree, please, do articulate your knowledge of roleplaying and how you think it should be represented in Classic.
These are what forums are for.
Until then, enjoy your Vanilla milkshake.
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I haven’t made any toons on any RP servers before. However, I’d join a RP PVP this time around.
I, unlike yourself, do not act as an insufferable all-knowing representative of the rp community. It does not need you, nor has it requested you speak on it’s behalf and judge what is real RP and what is “narrow” rp.
Glad you added that last line in the post, just to confirm your troll status.
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Then actually say something. If you think I don’t have any right to speak my mind on my observations on roleplaying, or how the WoW roleplaying community has historically behaved, I want you to cite examples of your experience that is contrary to mine.
That is a discussion.
I see where Classic RP is going based on experience, all you have done is angrily protest “No, you’re wrong. Shut up.”
You don’t have any intention of discussion of Classic, you want a sounding board for your ten years of angrily petitioning for Classic.
What is trolling about it? I’m gently reminding you that you spent a great deal of time telling me that I’m never going to get a free Vanilla milkshake with my Retail sub. And now that it is a reality, you are getting what you want as well.
So please, if you take issue, please feel free to ignore me, like you’ve threatened before. Or, add to the conversation. Talk about something.
Roleplaying is about telling stories - tell a story. Tell us about an experience or observation you had about roleplaying. Or tell us what you hope to get out of Classic roleplay and what your plans are. Something. Anything.
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So you admit it’s ours!
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I’m definitely going to roll on an RP server, be it RP or RPPvP. My guildmates have been discussing roleplaying past versions of our characters or even new ones altogether. I think it would be so fun to explore our characters as they were in Vanilla, especially Featherblade here, who wouldn’t have joined the Illidari yet.
That said, I doubt I’ll have any more than casual involvement in the community. My RP community is rooted in retail, so I intend to return to retail for the bulk of my RP.
I’ve tossed around the idea of making a new character altogether – maybe a traveling merchant – but nothing has stuck yet.
As for which server I’ll join, if there’s more than one to choose from, I’ll probably go wherever most of the people from Wyrmrest Accord or Emerald Dream seem to be going. I’m hoping that entire communities will agree to go to one place.
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