Lately I oft see quite a lot of outrage directed @ the Outlaw spec.
Honestly speaking, in-game I rarely ever see Outlaw rogues – if any for that matter.
Heck, even amongst the elite rogue players I know — The majority only played the spec when it was “Meta” but most had stated they didn’t really enjoy the spec very much.
Upon pondering all of this, It kind of made me wonder back to when Blizzard rebranded ‘Combat’ into ‘Outlaw’ and made the spec pirate themed — If they should had perhaps rebranded it into a Samurai // Ronin theme instead … I mean we’ve had shuriken toss ability before, along with cloak of shadows, evade, vanish and so forth – Rogues hardly lacked the aesthetics to make it work.
Anyway!
Overall although this thread may be controversial for a few, for the majority this thread is meant to be a thought-provoking, fun thread for rogues to dabble their thoughts upon, consider the possibilities and share your thoughts on just a prospect
I love my pistol too much to get rid of it. Devs just need to sit down and think about what needs to be done going forward with the spec. Buffs to spenders would be a help until something is figured out.
What you’re talking about sounds like the blademaster class that’s one of the classes in wow that’s not implemented for players. One of the members from this class we have helped in the past. His name is Lantresor of the blade. Cool lore and class fantasy there.
I think Blizz did rogues a disservice when they took away some of the cooler pirate themed abilities for Outlaw spec, one of them being a literal Cannon Ball AoE summon! I feel like, in terms of theme, Assassin is perfect with its poisons and double-dagger weaponry, Outlaw is near-perfect, but needs work to return it to that hardcore pirate theme, while Subtlety I feel needs to be reworked into a Ranged Spec where you’re throwing knives, stars and the like. As for a Samurai theme, that COULD definitely be a fourth spec, maybe as a Tank Theme, since Samurai’s were pretty much rooted in open-combat on battlefield, while Ninjas were more along the lines of Ambush Attackers.
Exactly my point. A ronin was often oucast from society, lived as a mercenary and viewed as a vagabond which fits the class fantasy of a rogue as opposed to law upholding “gentlemanly” samurai.
Because they were nerfed into oblivion for 3 expansions straight, as it’s too complex for newer devs to understand unique concepts they made no contribution to.
Combat/Outlaw was the quintessential cleave spec for over a decade, and clout chasing middle management decided to pidgeon hole the entire class design into something it wasn’t designed for, and act like they’re too stupid to figure out they did something stupid so they don’t get blamed for screwing it up.
Middle management acts the same for every corporation. Reinvent the wheel. Steal ideas. Shirk blame. Pretend to fix the problems you caused in the first place. Just fire them, they’re losing you money.
I mean, when we’re fighting in a party or raid – or as a representative of the Horde / Alliance – You could argue they’d still be able to make Samurai work … But I get your point
Yeah, but like I’ve also said in my original post →
Being unhappy with the scaling is one thing, but being unhappy with the theme and the playstyle is another.
It’s something I’ve emphasised on my shaman in the thread I made about Primordial Wave for elemental, how they changed it & its new variation — which isn’t really fun; whereas before it was.
However back to the subject at hand – Yeah I feel like the middle management thing applied with this patch and handful of poor decision making with classes Whether that be in class design, the change or outright removal of spells, changing how things work in PvE scenarios or even PvP.
That’s just skewed data, people enjoyed the class. No one goes onto online forums to compliment game design. What people were complaining about (without articulating it properly) is that Outlaw rotation was too complex for them to play, when it’s not too terribly complex if you just pay attention to your buffs like you’re supposed to.
The other major contributor was everyone else complaining about wanting to be the no effort meta spec every tier, like they complain about every tier, and complaining about the top .1% of outlaws doing so well when it is still one of the most difficult melee classes to play in the game.
You can see a lot of the theme dishonesty in the current raid tier. From what I’ve been seeing, quite a lot of people seem to very much like the pirate/gambler theme, and the ones who don’t are actually just statistical outliers, or just want combat back and pretending to be unhappy about something to get what they want. The problem is they keep screwing up the class, which is very difficult not to screw up when we have to keep up with 15+ constantly changing and randomized buffs all of the time.
We exist, just few and far between in the pugging scene. And the attitude from pugs is only making that less likely in the last 2 patches.
Personally, I enjoy the pirate theme. I wish they’d actually go bigger into it, and really dig into the VanCleef inspirations. While I don’t mind the idea of a samurai/ronin spec, I think those are better relegated to the other two specs. Especially since Sub is already sort of ninja-flavored.
I think a Samurai tank would be cool. I don’t think that’s what Outlaw should be, or even if it should be a Rogue spec, though. I think Outlaw should be a vigilante, like Batman, Daredevil, or TMNT. When I think of vigilante superheroes, I think of them sneaking into a building, dropping into a room full of bad guys, and taking them all out with a mix of martial arts, weapons, and gadgets. That’s what I want Outlaw to be.
You misunderstand the context I was using it.
If you look at the full original comment that statement was taken from →
I was referencing to the rogue players of guild mates, friends and those I frequent amongst or have had discussions with. The players that Iknow.
I wasn’t using it as a base rule of thumb.
Although that’s not to say there hasn’t been a large sum who agree with the sentiment.
However that may be my fault though, as my later quote from that statement may have been inappropriately cut short & misconceived the original message.
I actually agree with this the most.
Perhaps take on a few Samurai themes & abilities into its toolkit, but overall remain vigilante based.
In retrospect, monk could probably achieve a samurai ninja-like spec too (albeit such would be more of a new spec than a reworked one) — Since they hold the cultural themes, agility & mobility to make it work too.
I kind of get the vigilante / anti-hero (or anti-villain) vibes from VanCleef rather than a pirate one, as he really only became a “pirate” for the single purpose of unleashing mayhem upon Stormwind for them refusing fair-compensation to those that rebuilt it.
I mean, in the early Haian period a samurai was basically just a vague term for a warrior or footsoldier in employment of a lord, so yeah technically!
But the later periods of Japan, samurai are associated with strict honour codes and were considered almost nobility and in high social status. …which doesn’t make sense for a rogue. It’d be a good sub class for a warrior or even a paladin though. Even the 士 kanji can basically mean gentleman, and or scholar. Doesn’t really make me think rogue.
Ronin on the other hand, were often ostracised and looked at with suspicion by society and it would entail the rogue archetype perfectly though!
p.s. To anyone wondering, Yasuke was not a samurai. :3
Hence why I’ve added the Ronin status too.
Although you could roleplay as a rogue with a code of honour too … May not be up to the standards of others, but a code of honour nonetheless.
That being said, as mentioned earlier — The vigilante manner applies well too.
You could probably have a rogue-spec that’s on par with Ronin from Marvel (Hawkeye’s dark persona during “The Blip” of which you see in Avengers: Endgame)
not all samurai were noble and chivalrous; many were corrupt and would use their position to kill people and do awful and cruel things in the name of honor. if anything the closest we’ve had is the blademasters but blizzard refused to call slayer blademaster
Upon pondering all of this, It kind of made me wonder back to when Blizzard rebranded ‘Combat’ into ‘Outlaw’ and made the spec pirate themed — If they should had perhaps rebranded it into a Samurai // Ronin theme instead … I mean we’ve had shuriken toss ability before, along with cloak of shadows, evade, vanish and so forth – Rogues hardly lacked the aesthetics to make it work.
hence why I changed my thread anyway.
Whether that be in class design, the change or outright removal of spells, changing how things work in PvE scenarios or even PvP.
Ikr!!
One can dream