People will vote with their feet (to other classes or away from the game). Hopefully at some point the class dev team will work through their arrogance enough to realize that the entire class is bleeding players, and find someone who is much less of an obvious procrastinator to lead it.
9 Likes
No one wants to play Rogue with energy swimming because that isnât fun. But starving Outlaw and Assassination doesnât make sense. Assassination is already one of the lowest actions per minute specs in the game right up there with Feral Druid.
Outlaw relies on energy to fill every global to do damage. Pooling energy for Outlaw is never going to be as optimal as Sub. This is because Sub has a mastery that does increased damage from finishers. Outlawâs mastery is MG which relies on filling every global with combo point generators like Sinister Strike and auto attacks. Apples to Oranges.
1 Like
cant agree no more. blizzard really needs to fire this guy. it feels like that this guy just hates rogue community and trying his best to ruin our gaming experience.
4 Likes
Definitely agree this guy needs to go, though honestly a few of these devs need to be sat down and told to get their act together and actually work on their jobs.
Rogues are going to need another rework if they release the hero trees in the current state, along with multiple fixes to make our kits functional across the board. And there is zero reason we should be waiting until season 2/3 to see this. Hunters just got a massive adjustment/rework to make them playable, so why canât the guy managing our stuff get off his lazy behind to put some effort into making our kits fun and usable?
16 Likes
rogue hero talents are so bad, the amount of changes for all 3 specs are so minimal and all the assa changes look like nerfs, its insane how little work is being done for rogue.
15 Likes
Supposedly they work on classes and specs as a team but they seem to making other classes a top priority.
That might change soon but the deadline for mechanical changes is this month. By next month they move onto number tuning changes.
1 Like
ahain, its very disturbing that everyone jumps on one person cause they know theyre name. when its more than one person working on rogue and said team also works on other specs. yall legit just want to shoot the Messenger
When thereâs a pattern of behavior, it raises questions. Everyone who has worked at a job knows who the people are who are doing well and the people who are coasting - the people whose work seems to always be delayed, who always have an excuse, who always seem to have too much on their plate, who require others to cover for them.
Whether itâs one guy, or a whole crew of them, itâs clear thatâs whatâs going on with the rogue. Talents went live in DF that were bugged and didnât get a fix until halfway through the expansion; uninspired design decisions railroaded the whole class into Shadowdance builds for the entire expansion emphasizing stealth combat rather than offering more distinctive spec gameplay; a kitchen sink approach to design pushing all three specs toward taking all on use abilities possible rather than crafting genuine viable alternatives; resource glutting (energy AND cp generation) that undermined the classâs action economy, making it another GCD-locked spamfest, like a ret Paladin; design that only seems to reach into the âstacking short term buffsâ bucket that adds complexity with no payoff (this carries into the same devâs work with havoc DH).
Virtually no class was launched in the new talent system in DF without design problems, but rogue seemed a lot worse off than most, and here we are, with hero specs that are worse off than most. And people are leaving the class! Its embarrassing.
12 Likes
if you think rogue started off df with the worst tree then you obviously dont play other classes. while yes rogue hero tree deathstalker is a unplayable mess, just realize that alot of hero trees are extremely passive it just has the visual flair to hide that passivity, rogue being low fantasy without alot of eyecandy doesnt have the luxury of having big visuals to hide the passivity of hero talents.
iâm guessing thereâs no chance theyâre gonna fix sub logging for S4? the âakaariâs soulâ problem is happening again so it looks like sub is in the gutter.
1 Like
Pretty much how people realistically see this. I genuinely donât care if 1 or 100 people are working on the design. The point is, anyone responsible for the decisions need to be either canned or have a nice, long earful from the higher ups considering people that are long-time players of the class are looking at entirely fleeing with the absolutely trash state of the talents. Iâve been playing rogue for about 4 years now, basically the entire time Iâve been back after a break, and it just continues to get worse while the same ridiculous mistakes and stupid decisions keep getting made or doubled down on.
Absolutely embarrassing and overall well put. And the hunter rework being done this late while Rogue and Shaman both see a ridiculous lack of care and attention has me seriously considering refunding TWW or changing classes myself.
4 Likes
The problem is that if it is a team of devs working on classes they need to invole another dev or two, because the single dev working on Rogues and Demon Hunters is swamped with work and overwhelmed.
It happens in business when a worker is overwhelmed.
This is a repeat of the last expansion so far.
6 Likes
Genuinely donât understand what your angle is. People come to these forums to express their frustration with the game, both with the design itself and the perceived lack of communication. In thread after thread, you show up, dismissing their assertions, I guess to challenge their ârightâ to be unhappy. But thatâs crazy! The gameplay experience of a class theyâve invested significant time in has them feeling unhappy.
In the absence of information and direction from Blizzard, players are left with suppositions, sometimes pretty wild. Is it fair to Blizzard? Sometimes it isnât. What isnât useful though is in turn making excuses for Blizzard when you know just as much about whatâs going on as anyone else.
You may not have as much unhappiness with the gameplay and rate of improvements, or the direction of improvements as others do. Thatâs valid, but itâs also subjective.
Comparing rogues to the state of other classes in the game also isnât the rejoinder you think it is. I know other classes are in a rough place. I am well and truly on record as having been against this entire talent rework the whole way. But the difference here is that the rework has been bad AND rogues have gotten delayed and less attention than most, and the same thing is happening again going into TWW.
9 Likes
Rogues need some work something the current dev team is not willing to do, as a Rogue only player I donât think I will be playing the next expansion.
The Hero Talents were my hope for a better gameplay experience, but the dev team doesnât seem to understand what we need/want.
12 Likes
Look if one dev is working on two classes aka five specs between demon hunters and Rogues then it is obviously a problem, because not enough progress is being made.
5 Likes
Yea, amazes me how they removed shadow dance from outlaw which will basically kill the spec in any solo pve content. Vanish resets the fight wheras shadow dance let us get a few more inbetween the eyes in once every minute. Maybe if vanish didnât reset the fight instantly Iâd be okay with losing shadow dance, but as it stands now this is just another example of nobody at Blizzard playing the spec and making random decisions based on some weird rogue lore or other nonsensical metric.
4 Likes
By âresettingâ the fight you mean it resets mobs and such in solo content right? That is actually annoying. In group content and whatnot it doesnât matter.
Assassination and Outlaw lost Shadowdance but we gained an extra charge of Vanish and the stealth benefits last the same as Shadowdance since they increased Subterfuge from 3s to 6s (but its 2 talent points now). This change also benefits Subtlety too because Vanish gives them a fat 30s CD reduction on all their CDs, so having that extra charge of Vanish gives them some really good burst.
I think the bigger design issue is that a lot of Outlawâs power is locked behind being in stealth. They really need create some better talents/capstones that allow for a build where not that much of their power needs to come from being in stealth. I donât mind utility (like CC and damage reduction onto enemies coming online when in stealth) but having actual damage output greatly depend on being in stealth is something that should be reserved solely for Subtlety.
5 Likes
Yea, this is exactly why I said solo pve content.
It will make playing outlaw needlessly challenging unless they change it where vanish keeps you in combat for at least 4 seconds while you are stealthed after using that vanish so the PvE encounter does not reset. Otherwise give us shadow dance back.
Subterfuge wonât help us if we are already in the middle of a fight and then vanish to get off a few more inbetween the eyes because the mob will vanish.
1 Like
or you can ya know, not use vanish in solo pve? everything dies in two btes anyways
Tell me you havenât played 66~69 as outlaw in open world content without telling me you havenât played 66~69 as outlaw in open world content.
5 Likes